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What makes a person a muslim?

 
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anusiya



Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:35 pm    Post subject: What makes a person a muslim? Reply with quote

After having been denied my identity several times, I decided I might as well start a thread on this here...

Identity
The answer to the above question will vary depending on who's answering. People on various websites have answered: You're only a muslim if you believe in subjugating your enemies and women and advocate terrorism or words to that effect.

F them.

The phrase Half-muslim or muslim wannabee (You know you are) also really annoys me. Although not as bad as the above category, its still rather upsetting for someone to say to me: "No, you seem peaceful enough, you're only a half muslim"

The simple fact is, you're a muslim if you believe in the following (whether you like it or not): Taken from: A book of religious knowledge
    *The most important thing is the Shehada: There is no god but god and mohammed is his prophet. Its completely irrelevant what name you decide to give your god, whether its "YHWH", "Ishtar", whatever, just as its pretty irrelevant what attributes you've assigned to hir. If you've read that random post I made outlining the attributes of my god, you'll know that. (of course, believing that god became a human for about 60 (??) years starting 4 BC isn't included)
    * Belief in angels
    * Belief in prophets. All of them. Ever. Anywhere on the planet. Zoroaster, Krishna, and Buddha all count
    * Belief in the day of judgement.
    * Belief in divine decree and intervention
    * Belief that people are born innocent and only sin consciously (that means sin isnt hereditary, cyrizian)
    * Beleif that god doesnt hold anyone responsible unless he has shown him or her the right way. If you were to get a baby and make it live on a boat for the rest of its life (somehow), no matter how bad he/she was, god wouldnt punish her because she wouldnt know any better (unless of course she was somehow told ...)
    * Belief that blind faith is meaningless
    * Belief that people are only judged for their own actions, not the actions of their ancestors
    * Belief that all prophets were sent by god and no exceptions should be made


So, by that list, I am a Muslim. A fully blown Muslim, not a half-one or a wannabee or non-Muslim. And the only person to say otherwise is ME.

Ok, I may be somewhat unconventional about things (disregarding things i dont like such as hijab etc) but that doesnt make me any less of a muslim.

Just keep that in mind for next time anyone decides to deny me my identity


Prejudice
Now that that's finished, one more rant I'd like to add. This is particularly addressed to Rhuan (if hes still around) (whose posts I have been reading on other forums) but other people as well:

Not all muslims condone terrorism

Not all muslims are violent and aggressive

Not all muslims have a "they're out to get us" philosophy

Not all muslims believe in subjugation of women

Not all muslims are arabs

Not all muslims want to see the end of western and israeli civilisation

Not all muslims want to conquer the world

Not all muslims hate Jews and Christians

Not all muslims like Al-Qayda, Hezbollah, or whatever

Not all muslims liked 9/11 and 7/7

Not all muslims are displayed on the riot pictures on the internet!

Not all muslims are conventional
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Cyrizian



Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Houston TX

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what most muslims have told me, you only need to believe in the five pillars to "be a muslim." Alot of the things you posted are not part of the five pillars. So Im assuming that these are an amahdiyya thing.

Quote:
The most important thing is the Shehada: There is no god but god and mohammed is his prophet. Its completely irrelevant what name you decide to give your god, whether its "YHWH", "Ishtar", whatever, just as its pretty irrelevant what attributes you've assigned to hir. If you've read that random post I made outlining the attributes of my god, you'll know that. (of course, believing that god became a human for about 60 (??) years starting 4 BC isn't included)


Firstly (this is embarrasing) but its "there is no god but Allah and muhammed is his prophet." As a (half) muslim you should know this. Secondly it is in no way irrelevant what name you call your God. His name means ALOT and it is the most holy of names. Though Job lost everything, he still said, "He gives and takes away, but I still say blessed is the name of the Lord!" And I don't assign attributes to my God, He assigns attributes to me. Also Yeshua was here for 33 years, not 60.

Quote:
Belief in prophets. All of them. Ever. Anywhere on the planet. Zoroaster, Krishna, and Buddha all count


There is no basis in the quran for this. Besides they all contradict each other anyway.

Quote:
Belief that people are born innocent and only sin consciously (that means sin isnt hereditary, cyrizian)


Actually I believe people are born innocent but because of Adam's curse, I find the temptation of sin irresistable and therfore, share in his guilt.

You are a half muslim, Anusiya (or better!). You have already shown more intellegence, patience, even wisdom than the vast majority of muslims. You are less of a muslim now than ever before, and I applaud you for your efforts. Rhuan should be proud!
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You wrote that the world doesn't need a savior...but everyday I hear people crying for one. -Superman
To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him. -Earnest Renan
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anusiya



Joined: 01 Apr 2006
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
From what most muslims have told me, you only need to believe in the five pillars to "be a muslim."

We still qualify as fully fledged muslims.

2. Allah is contracted form of Al-Ilah (pronounced /ɯlɪlah/), which is the word The-God. Try saying that really quickly loads of times (stress on the Al bit) and you'll see what I mean.

God = YHWH = Allah = Zeus = Ohrmazd = I could go on .... They're all names. Which one's the only legitamate one?

Quote:
Besides they all contradict each other anyway.

Do they really?

All teach basic good deeds and crap:
- Don't lie, cheat, steal, kill people, etc, etc, that kind of stuff.

Ok, theyre may be cultural variations, but with essentially the same meaning.

Quote:
Actually I believe people are born innocent but because of Adam's curse, I find the temptation of sin irresistable and therfore, share in his guilt.

So what happens to babies who die instantly?

Quote:
Rhuan should be proud!

I'm actually making a compilation of pretty much everything Rhuan's said thats worth recording - when its done, you can have a look and then check to see what Rhuan's really like.

Quote:
You are a half muslim, Anusiya (or better!)

Ok, honestly, put, thats probably true for me (I'm the kind of person who will easily scrap stuff I dont like about any system of belief that I follow - such as homosexuality evil thingy). But its definitely not true of any muslim who shows "intelligence, patience, and wisdome." If you ever meet another half-muslim, ask them as well.

One more thing:
"Judge not lest ye be judged" (or something like that)
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Cyrizian



Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 226
Location: Houston TX

PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2006 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Which one's the only legitamate one?


I suppose there are many "legitamate" names. But I can tell you one thing: there is power in the name of Yeshua. Saying his name can do many things both great and small. No other god's name means as much as His. And that, is the difference.

Quote:
Quote:
Besides they all contradict each other anyway.

Do they really?

All teach basic good deeds and crap:
- Don't lie, cheat, steal, kill people, etc, etc, that kind of stuff.

Ok, theyre may be cultural variations, but with essentially the same meaning.


Many of them do. Some say its ok to lie (muhammed and others) for certain causes. Some say its ok to kill for certain causes. Others say "none of that matters!." They all say different things. You can't fallow all of their teachings because hardly any of them agree on anything. See for yourself.

Quote:
So what happens to babies who die instantly?


I think I've already explained this somewhere. The age of accountability is the deciding factor. They must know the difference between good and evil in order to condemn themselves. If they don't they are the same as animals that act only on instinct and have no conscious thought (non-sentient) A baby that dies at that age returns to his maker. There is no sin involved.

Quote:
I'm actually making a compilation of pretty much everything Rhuan's said thats worth recording - when its done, you can have a look and then check to see what Rhuan's really like.


Well from what I've seen he doesn't seem like the bad guy you make him out to be.

Quote:
Ok, honestly, put, thats probably true for me (I'm the kind of person who will easily scrap stuff I dont like about any system of belief that I follow - such as homosexuality evil thingy). But its definitely not true of any muslim who shows "intelligence, patience, and wisdome." If you ever meet another half-muslim, ask them as well.


The vast majority does not show these traits. By my standing, you are literally a better person and more civilized than most of your fellow muslims... not to mention Muhammed. But there is still aways to go for you yet.

Quote:
"Judge not lest ye be judged" (or something like that)


I judge because I'm not afraid of judgement. I have nothing to hide and I have Yeshua at my side.
_________________
You wrote that the world doesn't need a savior...but everyday I hear people crying for one. -Superman
To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him. -Earnest Renan
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