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cyrus
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:10 pm    Post subject: Who Is Real Arab? Reply with quote

Who Is Real Arab?

Quote:





Source: http://www.goodnewsmedia.com/farsi.htm

CYRUS THE GREAT

"Named by God 150 Years Before His Birth"


Isaiah the prophet foretold that a king of Persia would be born, Cyrus the Great (Surnamed by God) 150 years before his birth.
"Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus whose hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him two leaved gates; and the gates shall not shut; .For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. That saith of Cyrus, he is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasures: even saying to Jerusalem, thou shalt be built; and to the Temple, thy foundation shall be laid." ... Isaiah 44:1,4, 28

Cyrus was to be a "shepherd" of God's people, in that he, by decree, permitted them to return to their own land and rebuild their cities and their Temple. ... According to Pliny, the Roman Historian, the wealth in jewels, gold, and silver of Cyrus the Great amounted to $353,427,200.00. The knowledge of God may have been given to Cyrus by Daniel, Ezra, or Nehemiah. In the book of Ezra we see Cyrus acknowledge Jehovah as the True God at the time he decreed the rebuilding of the Temple.

"Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, the Lord stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,.Thus saith Cyrus, king of Persia, the Lord God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him a house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah..Who is there among you of all his people? His God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of the Lord God of Israel, (He is God,) which is in Jerusalem" Ezra 1:1-3

Cyrus (580-529 BC) was the first Achaemenid Emperor. He founded Persia by uniting the two original Iranian Tribes- the Medes and the Persians. Although he was known to be a great conqueror, who at one point controlled one of the greatest Empires ever seen, he is best remembered for his unprecedented tolerance and magnanimous attitude towards those he defeated.

Upon his victory over the Medes, he founded a government for his new kingdom, incorporating both Median and Persian nobles as civilian officials. The conquest of Asia Minor completed, he led his armies to the eastern frontiers. Hyrcania and Parthia were already part of the Median Kingdom. Further east, he conquered Drangiana, Arachosia, Margiana and Bactria. After crossing the Oxus, he reached the Jaxartes, where he built fortified towns with the object of defending the farthest frontier of his kingdom against nomadic tribes of Central Asia.

The victories to the east led him again to the west and sounded the hour for attack on Babylon and Egypt. When he conquered Babylon, he did so to cheers from the Jewish Community, who welcomed him as a liberator- he allowed the Jews to return to the promised Land. He showed great forbearance and respect towards the religious beliefs and cultural traditions of other races. These qualities earned him the respect and homage of all the people over whom he ruled.

The victory over Babylonia expressed all the facets of the policy of conciliation which Cyrus had followed until then. He presented himself not as a conqueror, but a liberator and the legitimate successor to the crown. He also declared the first Charter of Human Rights known to mankind. He took the title of "King of Babylon and King of the Land". Cyrus had no thought of forcing conquered people into a single mould, and had the wisdom to leave unchanged the institution of each kingdom he attached to the Persian Crown. In 539 BC he allowed 42,000 Jews to leave Babylon and return to Palestine while 960,000 remained in Babylon. This step was in line with his policy to bring peace to Mankind.
Cyrus was upright, a great leader of men, generous and benelovent. The Hellenes, whom he conquered regarded him as 'Law-giver' and the Jews as 'the annointed of the Lord'.

Cyrus founded a new capital city at Persepolis in Fars. and had established a government for his Empire. He appointed a governor (satrap) to represent him in each province, however the administration, legislation, and cultural activities of each province was the responsibility of the Satraps. Accoding to Xenophon, Cyrus is also reputed to have devised the first postal system. His doctrines were adopted by the future emperors of the Achaemenian dynasty.



First we should recognize there are major differences between primitive Wahhabist Saudi Arabian Islamic culture and Egytian, Syrian, Lebanon, Iraqi ....... culture.

The fact that the Egytian, Syrian, Lebanon, Iraqi ....... are speaking Arabic should not be considered as Arabs. The Real Arabs are living in Saudi Arabia. Not everyone who speaks English considered English men.


_____________________________________________________________

Regime Change In Iran with Unity And After Regime Change Free Referendum For FREE Society And Secular Democracy Without Any British Plot To Control Oil

No one group of people are more familiar with the concept of terrorism in the name of God and Islam than the Iranians, who for many years have been the biggest victims of these Islamic Mafia terrorists. Persia or Iran has been invaded twice by Islamic Mafia barbarian invaders.

The First Invasion of Iran by Islam: happened approximately 1400 years ago by Arabia's Islamic barbarians, who in the name of God, Brotherhood and Equality, aimed to conquer and plunder. We have learned that there is a striking similarity between the WTC Terrorist attack and the burning of Tees-fun library by primitive Islamic fanatic invaders. 1400 years ago, a great collection of books was kept in the Persian empire's Library at Tees-fun, which was the first or second biggest center of art, literature, and science in the world. This vast collection of books was set ablaze and destroyed by Arabian Invaders, setting World's clock back by at least 400 years. The Saudi Arabian terrorists who murdered thousands on September 11th, who were still living their million-old dream of many wives and barbarically primitive ideas, are shockingly similar to the barbarians who invaded Persia with the slogan of brotherhood and equality, but delivered only hate, burning, stealing , raping of women (non-believers) and forced marriage in the name of God and Islam.

According the book, THE IRANIANS PERSIA, ISLAM AND THE SOUL OF A NATION by Sandra McKay " A tour de force of intellectual comprehension, summary, and balance." -- Washington Times Pg 46.

"Finally on a day in June 637, the Sassanian commander, Rustam, reluctantly opened the battle. But the Saddanian army, like Sassanian society had grown ponderous. With its spirit drained off in the futile campaigns against Byzantium, the famous Persian cataphracts became clumps of fat, immobile men battlin a swarm of wasps. The heavily armed cavalry with its supporting elephants which had punished Romans and Byzantines proved powerless against the Arabs on swift camels who attacked and then withdrew into the desert. Over three days, the two sides engaged. On the fourth, the Persians' reluctant commander, Rustam, died. His army went into pell-mell retreat, leaving the Sassanian Empire open to invasion.
In 638, the vaulted palace at Ctesiphon, the physical embodiment of late Sassanian art and knowledge, fell to the Arabs. Its fabulous prizes dazzled the poor, unlearned tribesmen of the Arabian Peninsula. A life-size camel crafted of silver and a golden horse with emerald teeth and a garland of rubies draped around its neck were only two among the hundreds of objects of art that passed from the cultured hands of the Sassanians into the rough, callused hands of Arab warriors. The incredible carpet, "Spring of Khosrow," went to Mecca where Islam's religious leaders, disdainful of
material posessions, cut it into pieces. The destruction wreaked by the ignorant Arabs went on. The massive libraries so carefully collected by the
Sassanian kings scattered in the capricious wind of the Arab edict:

If the books herein are in accord with Islam,
then we don't need them.
If the books herein are not in accord with Islam,
then they are kafir (of the infidel)
"
If US government in past 27 years as the only progressive
Super Power in the world would not have made the same mistakes as Persian Sassanians Empire then we could have avoided Sept. 11 and Today Global Islamist Terrorists.



Most recently, Wahhabist Saudi Arabian fanatics, in the guise of friendship, have entered the US and plotted against innocent civilians in the Land of the Free and Home of the Brave. Unfortunately, history has shown us that this is the deceitful nature of primitive Wahhabist Saudi Arabian culture, which has not been changed for centuries for many different reasons. According to many US sources it has become clear that Saudi Arabia is the main financier of the Wahhabist doctrine of global jihad against non-believers (terrorism) and they have used Mosques and Madrasas everywhere to brainwash innocent poor children from the age of 5 with extreme hate for their backward, and primitive objectives. Unfortunately Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski (From Harvard University), Margaret Thatcher , Jack Straw and British secret service supported the Wahhabist doctrine and Islamic fanatics as a primitive system of government from early 1979. Hope one day Sept 11 NY courts investigate these crimes against humanity. At the same time we should recognize there are major differences between primitive Wahhabist Saudi Arabian Islamic culture and Egytian, Syrian, Lebanon ....... culture.

In order to eradicate Islamic Terrorism we must learn from our mistakes without any dogma and make a correction to the future foreign policy of USA. Hiding facts about our past politician mistakes or their evil intentions from American people in the name of national interest is against spirit of our brave hero General George Washington and Thomas Jefferson. Is Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski graduate of Harvard University with good knowledge of history and Isalm partially responsible for what happened in Sept 11?

Did Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski know the following facts about Islam or Not ?

"If the books herein are in accord with Islam,
then we don't need them.
If the books herein are not in accord with Islam,
then they are kafir (of the infidel)"

Did we ignore Saudi Arabian Islamic fanatics , Saudi Arabian Royal family, repressive clerical Mafia regime in Iran, Talban regime and other religious fanatics for too long?




The Second Invasion of Islam was by Khomeni along with British blessing with the goal to plunder Iran's resources. Khomeni and his team of SS Clergymen (Khameni, Rafsanjani, Khatami ....) succeeded with the slogan of freedom, liberty and free oil for all, in deceiving the masses with the help of BBC Farsi. Khomeni's profile (described in detail by Dr. Masud Ansari's Book: 67 Massacre) is very similar to that of Saddam Hussein. Khomeni, the most deceitful British agent would never have been able to deceive the Iranian people without the help and blessing of the complex British and French advisors, as well as their secret services and they are equally responsible for Iran's disaster. As a result of this second invasion by fanatic Islam, over the last two decades, Iran has suffered over 1 million war casualties, the destruction of many cities, thousands of political executions and prisoners, the rape and execution of young girls in prison, the stoning of women, the loss of social freedoms, the theft of billions of dollars by Rafsanjani , SS Clergymen and his terror Mafia gangs, a massive exodus of Iranian refugees throughout the world, the hostage crisis, and the demise of a 200 year old friendship between Iran and US, reducing Iran's status from most advanced developing country with countless contributions to world history not to mention founding the first declaration of human rights, to the ugly International Islamic Terrorist Mafia Support Headquarters! Today, Iranians throughout the world are making their voices heard, from every corner of Iran and from every countries abroad, the Iranian people are telling the world they no longer need Islam and the Mullahs.

The repressive Mafia clerical dictatorship regime in Iran is based on Animal Farm Novel by George Orwell. "We pigs (Islamic Clerical Mafia regime in Iran and their supporters Britian, France, Germany, Russia, China .... governments) are brainworkers. The whole management and organization of the farm depend on us. Day and night, we are watching over your welfare. It is for your sake that we drink that milk and eat those apples." While this swinish brotherhood sells out the revolution, cynically editing the Seven Commandments to excuse their violence and greed, everyone once again left hungry and exhausted, no better off than in the days when humans ran the farm. "

To be Continued .....


Last edited by cyrus on Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:09 pm; edited 10 times in total
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Oppenheimer



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I read the following, this opposition group is asking exactly what all other opposition groups are, and is not talking about self-determination as a separate state, but self determination for all people in Iran.

It seems logical that under a democratic Iranian system that abides by human rights norms and the rule of law, their situation would be vastly improved, as would everyone elses.

So the question is whether folks have misunderstood intent, and can put this "separarist" issue to bed by a concrete plan called "inclusiveness"

As the following indicates....there is indeed common cause. "and others" below would be everyone else in Iran, by inference.

-----------

"The Democratic Solidarity Party of Ahwaz is a secular non-violent organization aiming to bring about democracy and social justice for Arab people in Ahwaz (Arabistan /Khuzistan). It seeks to end the current dictatorship in Iran and establish a democratic political system that respects the human rights and recognizes the right of self-determination for all unrepresented peoples in Iran. These include the Azerbaijani Turks, the Kurds, the Arabs, the Baloch, the Turkmen and others."


PO Box 2397
London W8 4ZS UK


PO Box 287383
New York, NY 10128, USA

ahwazidsparty@yahoo.com
DspAhwazny@aol.com
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Oppenheimer



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who Is Real Arab?

-----------

Good question Cyrus. As I sit here banging away at the premis of inclusiveness today....I think it's also a fundemental issue about who is a real Iranian?

Those issues, and the solutions that create inclusiveness are inherent in producing a future free Iran.

And in a very real sense gets down to the heart of the matter in bringing the meltingpot of the opposition to a common boil against the IRI.

Then, you folks will make history....the way Cyrus the great intended.
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Liberty Now !



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:29 pm    Post subject: independence from UK. Reply with quote

did you know the british monarchy & colonialism was foretold in the book of the devil? the one stolen from Egype, and kept in basement of british museum.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

back to politics!
the way I see it, at the same time as the fall of Russia, they had to kick out the shad, you see, otherwise many of the nations who were previously part of Persia/ Iran would seriously want to re-unite.

now not only they prevented that by destroying the progressive advance Iran, and replacing it with barbaric islamist backwardness, they are now attempting to take what has been part of Iran for thousands of years apart. it's like ripping a body into pieces. many rather have their hearts ripped open, rather let that happen.

If khouzestan region (I don't belive in their fake history about arabistan) became part of Persia thousands of years ago, and it has to be separated, then what about the nations who bacame part of UK not even a century ago? how come you don't promote Independence U.S style, over there? mind you, some of them have oil too. lol

isn't that so obvious that the same "Cynics" which want to rip our country apart, also think other nations should be thankful to be Under their rule or domein?

British are such friends of Ahvazis these days, that they put them first! that must be it! what else can it be.

as we say: Daa'ye mehraban'tar az madar!


a few good words with western democracy advocates!

Iranians from all different cultural and religious backgrounds lived together for thousands of years, in the first and largest multicultural society.

there's therefore, no need for westerners to try and teach Iranians how to live together, or decide if it would serve the country better to live separately!

we certainly don't appreciate being bombarded with such propaganda. and that's the bottom line.

The people of khouzestan were already Iranians for centuries when Islamist barbarians attacked the country, and they were the first to fight the Arabs of Saudi deserts.

Don't you dare speak for them. or pretend you know what they want better than they know their own needs and will.

If they wanted to separate, they had the chance just decades ago, when the British army separated Khouzestan!

but they fought back and reunited with their homeland, where they belong, where they lived and fought for, many thousands of years.


and please! don't even try to compare what Cyrus offerend many nations and how they joined willingly, with western colonialism, or this sickening new separatist propaganda. or forcing democracy with bombs.

first have the ethics and decency to acknowledge where this idea of Democracy came from (as the text above suggests it wasn't the hellens who invented it), then try to babysit your own newly found democracy so it grows into the inclusive respectful ideal that it is suppose to be, then try to keep it going for 2000 years, perhaps then you'll be in a position to be able to actually live with other people on the same Globe without making their lives a living hell every few years or so!


come back then, and we'll talk Wink
_________________
Paayande Iran


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Oppenheimer



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PostPosted: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Remarks at the Annual State Department Iftaar Dinner


Secretary Condoleezza Rice
Benjamin Franklin Room
Washington, DC
October 25, 2005

(7:18 p.m. EDT)

SECRETARY RICE: Good evening. Ramadan Kareem. Ladies and gentlemen, I am
honored that distinguished members of the Diplomatic Corps could be here this
evening and I am very pleased at the representation of our civil society and
faith-based communities. Thank you very much for joining me tonight.

As a former academic, I appreciate that so many professors and students are
also with us here today, especially the Fulbrighters and other visiting
scholars. There is really nothing more important that we do than the exchange
of young people between countries.

And of course, let me extend a warm greeting to the many members of the
national and international media who are joining us as well.

Welcome, all of you, to our Annual State Department Iftaar Dinner. I want to
thank you, Imam Hendi, for that really beautiful and moving invocation. We will
always remember the spirit of Ramadan as you talk to us about it.

In the past few years, I've had the chance to attend several Iftaar Dinners
that President Bush has hosted at the White House. These meals have given me
the opportunity to speak with many Muslim men and women and to gain a deeper
understanding of the month of Ramadan. I have learned that Ramadan is
characterized by sacrifice and abiding faith, by prayer and self-reflection and
by compassion and profound joy.

I've also learned that Ramadan inspires more than a billion Muslims all across
the world to renew their bonds to family and friends, to neighbors and
colleagues, and most of all to God.

We in America know the benevolence that is at the heart of Islam. We've seen it
in many ways. And most recently, in the wake of Hurricane Katrina, Muslim
nations extended some of the most generous offers of support that we received.
And after the recent earthquake in South Asia, the entire world watched as
thousands of Muslims, deep in the observance of Ramadan, led the relief effort
without breaking their fast.

We in America also know that Muslims, like people of all faiths and people of
no faith at all, possess certain basic rights that arise from our equal human
dignity. Among these are the right to live without oppression, the right to
worship without persecution, and the right to think and speak and assemble
without wrongful retribution.

Ladies and gentlemen, these are not American rights or Western rights. They are
human rights, unanimously desired and universally deserved. Muslims freely
exercise their rights as American citizens and Muslims have claimed their
rights throughout Northern Africa and Western Europe and Central Asia and
Southeast Asia.

President Bush believes that when states guarantee the basic rights of their
citizens, our world grows more just and more secure. We in America support
people of every culture and race and religion who wish to make their own
decisions and choose their own governments and speak their own minds. We know
that free choices may produce disagreement, but listening to one another and
exchanging ideas respectfully and cooperating wherever and whenever we can,
this is the essence of democracy and it is also the mission of diplomacy.

America supports the democratic aspirations of all people, not because we think
ourselves perfect; to the contrary, it is precisely because we are imperfect,
with a long history of failures and false starts, that we cherish democracy and
support others who embrace its challenges.

This weekend, I returned home to Birmingham, Alabama. I took with me Foreign
Minister Jack Straw of the United Kingdom and we returned a bit to the
Birmingham of my childhood, a Birmingham in which rights and freedom were
denied to people of my color. It was a place in which it was very clear that we
had not come very far from the time when the Founding Fathers said, "We the
people," and didn't mean me.

But I saw another Birmingham, too, a Birmingham that had been launched by the
great pioneer who we lost last night, Rosa Parks, a woman of enormous courage,
a woman of gentle spirit but of a very tough backbone and a wonderful heart, a
heart the size of America.

And I visited, too, the Birmingham that she launched, a Birmingham that is
starting to come together, where faiths are starting to come together, where
people of different colors and different ethnicities are starting to come
together. And I thought to myself that it is a wonderful thing for the human
spirit when human beings overcome their history and their legacy of oppression
and failures to make a new start.

So, of all nations, America has no cause for false pride and we have every
reason for humility. But we also have every reason to believe that when people
rise up for the universal principles of democracy, they will not be denied.

So, on behalf of all the men and women of the State Department, thank you for
honoring us with your presence this evening. Thank you for what you do every
day as people of a great faith, of one of the world's great religions, of a
religion of peace and love. Thank you for spending this important holiday
evening with us. Ramadan Kareem. (Applause.)

Now I am supposed to tell you that dinner's not quite over. There will be
coffee and dessert served, so we'll relax now and have coffee and dessert.

2005/986



Released on October 25, 2005

************************************************************
See http://www.state.gov/secretary/ for all remarks by the Secretary of State.
************************************************************
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cyrus
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 12:08 am    Post subject: Who Is Real Iranian? Reply with quote

Oppenheimer wrote:
Who Is Real Arab?

-----------

Good question Cyrus. As I sit here banging away at the premis of inclusiveness today....I think it's also a fundemental issue about who is a real Iranian?

Those issues, and the solutions that create inclusiveness are inherent in producing a future free Iran.

And in a very real sense gets down to the heart of the matter in bringing the meltingpot of the opposition to a common boil against the IRI.

Then, you folks will make history....the way Cyrus the great intended.



Dear Oppenheimer,

Very good questions and very good answer "create inclusiveness are inherent in producing a future free Iran."

In addition to your answer to the question "who is a real Iranian?" I should say

Iranian With 99% Majority = Iranian-American, Iranian-Jews, Iranian-Israelis, Iranian Azeri, Iranian Kurd, Iranian-Bahi, Iranian-Christian, Iranian- Baluchi ......

Iranian With Less than 1% = Islamist-Mullahs-Arabs-Terrorist who have been ruling Iran in past 27 years by force and terror created a lot of mess and they wish to have Atomic Bomb to continue their rules.

You might want to ask the following question from famous people with Iranian origin, are you proud of having Iranian Origin or not? http://activistchat.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7071

I should remind you Iranian-Jews are far more Nationalist than any other Jews in the world and their contributions to Iranian culture, music, literature … are huge. Many children of Iranian American Jews in US are speaking better Persian than non Iranian American Jews who born in US. .. There are good reasons for that….

Iranian Jew President Moshe Katsav Eighth President of Israel


The ‎President of Israel with the photograph of his parents, Gohar and Shmuel Katsav

Moshe Katsav was born on the 1st of Tevet 5705 (December 5, 1945) in the city of Yazd, in central Iran. Yazd was called Little Jerusalem because of the abundance of Jewish schools for Torah study, religious sages, and synagogues.

Iranian Israeli Jew Lt.-Gen. Shaul Mofaz Israel Minister of Defense



Source : http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/mofaz.html

Lt.-Gen. Shaul Mofaz, born in Iran in 1948, is married with four children. He immigrated to Israel in 1957


If Iranian inclusiveness did not exist in Persian Culture we would not have survived in past 2500 years and above people were not proud of their origin.

Regards,
Cyrus
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Liberty Now !



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

why not learn from the experience of multiculturalism in Persia/ Iran?

why try to destroy it?

can you keep up multiculturalism in U.S or E.U for another 100 years, let alone 2000?

it's amazing that instead of trying to understand it, you are destroying what may hold the very key to your own survival in your infant civilization!

let's say all is destroyed, and all who willingly joined together, wisely established world's largest multicultural society, and managed to live together and celebrate their differences for many thousands of years, all fall apart and become your little tiny islamic republic colonies.

this path west is taking will lead to it's own disfunction even before all the resources are used up.

instead of all the propaganda, and futureless politics, we could all join hands around the globe and find the true path, a safe path for future generations.

but it wont happen. neither will Global Village.
because those who managed to establish a new civilization based on an existing knowledge and experience of all previou civilizations, want to dictate the rules and regulate everything, to the rest whom they consider inferior in any ways!

they forget that at the end it's all about LIFE. Human Life.
civilization is about Human Life.

true knowledge is hidden deep in the 7000 year old young hearts and souls who truely, deeply understand the meaning of the poem:

Human Beings are of One Body. . .

with every single fiber of their being.

That is true knowledge and the key to the survival of civilizations.

Respect for Human Life, is yet to be fully comprehende by the new one in its cradle. Life has its own way of teaching, not to worry. we've been through it all. you will be too, in time!

we came through so far by making many friends, joining hands, and sticking together.

but since you know it all. we'll leave you alone!
_________________
Paayande Iran
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Oppenheimer



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Cyrus,

You asked who is real Arab...and posted the map....I looked at the map and asked who is real Iranian?

Point is ...is there a difference when you look at the map?

Now the maps are obviously different today...people's and cultures have intermingled...and borders do not define cultural identity, or confine culture by borders to a region in the greater Middle east.

Think of it ....the total genetic difference between Palestinians and Jews is something like .0000001%

but they have radically differing mindsets regarding issues that divide them.

It's really all in the head..this "being separate" thing..as well as in language and culture...which defines "mindset" which needs changing.

"Iranian With 99% Majority = Iranian-American, Iranian-Jews, Iranian-Israelis, Iranian Azeri, Iranian Kurd, Iranian-Bahi, Iranian-Christian, Iranian- Baluchi ...... "

And so this is a pretty good way of looking at it....I think you got what I was asking in reference to the map....(chuckle).


Thing is, these Iranian/Arabs have been denied incusiveness for so long they have as a natural result, and as a matter of survival, incurred a mindset of being separate from Iranian society.

what I have seen is that (and I will state this as objective opinion from observation) the general opposition has done two things:

1. it has failed to recognise the inherent social dillema that has caused Iranian/arabs to feel separate over many years.

2. It has compounded the problem recently by condeming them via the misunderstanding of (1) above, and further isolated them from being a viable part of the opposition against the IRI.

Whereas, if you remember, the first thing I said was wait and see what comes of the AEI discussion ....if they "hang themselves with their own words" then deal with it.

Seems one fellow hung himself with his own words back in 99, and that is well and good to protest his participation...

but to condem a group because they identify themselves by ethnicity, because they have never been given a sense of inclusiveness in modern Iran is not rational, nor compassionate, nor going to bring the inclusiveness necessary to produce a future free Iran.

As I said, they arn't asking anything more, or less than, all other opposition groups who want to totally separate Iran from its current ruling mullocracy...that 1% furry freek brother nuclear coalition that's hell bent on bringing the 12th Imman to a burnt out cinder of a world....nice "second coming"....real positive vision, that....

So it's up to folks with a better idea to forge the bonds of unity...and put differences aside by resolution..."siezed of the matter in inclusiveness"

Only then will the opposition stand on principal with both feet.
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Liberty Now !



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:00 am    Post subject: Iranians Reply with quote

oppie, you keep repeating this phrase that the Arabs now feel separated from the rest of Iran! it's a false statement.

the Iranian arabs feel just as much pain as the rest of Iranians, under the brutal suppression of an islamo-fascist regime. which by the way the same brits who are such friends of ahvazis these days, helped its establishment.

it is not the will of any of these Iranians to separate from Iran. at the same time they are all human beings and there is only so much they can take. and sooner or later they wont take it anymore. that doesn't mean they wold give their land to the brits!

think of it this way: when the African Americans felt unjustly suppressed, the solution wasn't to separate and establish a new country of their own!
and the problem in Iran isn't racism, but fascism for all!

they fought for their rights.

and that's what Iraninas have been doing and continue to do so, tegether.

be it Kurd, Lur, baluch or Gilak, Mazani, Mashadi, khouzi /ahvazi, fars, Azari, Turkmeni, and the zoroastrian, or Jewish, christian, muslim, bahai, budhist, spiritual, secular, femenist, worker, student, and all!

they all are suffering from the same oppression, all fighting it together, and will also fight anything that threatens their motherland together.
Especially if it's threatening to separate them from each other.

every one of the groups above has strong ties to the all the others. they are intervowen with vows of citizenship, friendship, marriage, and partnership for thousands of years. and they are not about to let bunch of western backed trators to break their vow of solidarity, friendship, marriage or citizenry with stupid propaganda nor war.

Iranian's define themselves first and foremost by their nationalism/ nationhood/ motherland. not their culture, religion nor race.

separation to them is like chopping off their arm or leg.

cho Iran nabashad tane man nabaad
darin marzo boom zende yek tan mabaad

it's either all of us, or none of us! simple as that.
_________________
Paayande Iran
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 1166
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"back to politics!
the way I see it, at the same time as the fall of Russia, they had to kick out the shad, you see, otherwise many of the nations who were previously part of Persia/ Iran would seriously want to re-unite."
----------

Liberty, I don't know where you learned your history, some comic book perhaps....cause I just fell on the floor laughing as I read this.

Just for your information....the fall of Soviet Russia happened between 1989-91. Including the breakup of the Soviet Bloc nations into soverign states.

Now I guess "shad" is a typo...and you meant "shah" ....well that is your history...and in case you forgot...that "kicking out" was a decade prior to the fall of the Soviet empire.

in any case, the one thing those states wanted after being under the thumb of the Soviets was self-determination of their own affairs, not to re-unite with anyone, but to be in good neighbor standing with other nations.

But Iran today isn't even close to being comparitive to the USSR conglomerate of states, that had a long history prior to WW2 of being independent nations.

And the solutions to Iranian problems are inherently Iranian in origin, and resolution....and no amount of outside aid or influence will change that fact....you folks need our help...fine.. if not...that's your decision.

but as I understand it, Iranians have been seeking the help of the international community for some time Liberty...so your premis isn't valid that you don't need our help....

Here's a good example in the words of the opposition of what I've been trying to put across here to folks....

---------

" Mr. President, we the people of Iran, are faced not only
with the chains of political and religious oppression,
poverty, despair, drug abuse, and lack of civil liberties.

We of the opposition should have been able to jointly
prepare a correct and specific program during these last
years. We need now to seize these current internal and
external opportunities that exist, to free our country and
respond to our people's legitimate aspirations, and to the
world's concerns.
And through this, we hope to create a coordinated effort to
obtained the necessary moral and financial support that
will lead to the downfall of the Islamist Republic regime."

(Excerpt from SMCCDI letter to president Bush, January 27, 2005)


-----------

"oppie, you keep repeating this phrase that the Arabs now feel separated from the rest of Iran! it's a false statement. "

I said, "Thing is, these Iranian/Arabs have been denied incusiveness for so long they have as a natural result, and as a matter of survival, incurred a mindset of being separate from Iranian society."

That is much different than being "separated from the rest of Iran" as you falsly interpreted my statement.

And it is true enough if you go back to the site you so kindly provided the link to and do some serious research, that they have indeed been denied inclusiveness in Iranian society for many years in some respects as Blacks in America...though there is a big difference...it was not so much on racial grounds the Iranian/Arabs were denied civil rights, but on cultural grounds.

The other big difference is that as you can read for yourself in the lecture at Blackburn U which both Rice and Straw spoke on democracy...that in America's civil rights movement there were institutions of democracy that the civil rights leaders went through to gain their rights under tyhe constitution....in other words...they forced the institutions to live up to the constitution.

In Iran, there is niether the institutions or the constitution to seek civil rights through....you have a failed system, corrupt institutions pandering to a ideological extremist mentality that is anything but conducive to applying the rule of law in a manner such as how America's civil rights leaders used the constitution to change society.

Cyrus the great's empire didn't last all that long after his death...and it was only a few hundred years till infighting destroyed it...as it was, the democracy he created gave way on his deathbed to monarchy....I've read the history...and they had a choice back then to continue democracy...or revert back to a monarchist system....some in the council walked out refusing to partake in a monarchy....Cyrus refused to name a successor...saying to "choose among you"....

These things too are your history Liberty, but it seems I know it better than you.

Funny that you would think my government's young Democracy would soon perish and crumble into "separatism".....the Soviets were convinced as well.....alas...this was not to be, for diversity is what makes America an enduring idea based on the premis of democracy and human liberty.

What Cyrus the great provided to mankind was a legacy, and a premis of government that is forged in inclusiveness and diversity.

What binds that is the sense of belonging , and having a voice in affairs of state, without retribution.

As Condi Rice said:

"We in America also know that Muslims, like people of all faiths and people of no faith at all, possess certain basic rights that arise from our equal human dignity. Among these are the right to live without oppression, the right to worship without persecution, and the right to think and speak and assemble without wrongful retribution.

Ladies and gentlemen, these are not American rights or Western rights. They are human rights, unanimously desired and universally deserved. Muslims freely exercise their rights as American citizens and Muslims have claimed their rights throughout Northern Africa and Western Europe and Central Asia and Southeast Asia.

President Bush believes that when states guarantee the basic rights of their citizens, our world grows more just and more secure. We in America support people of every culture and race and religion who wish to make their own decisions and choose their own governments and speak their own minds. We know that free choices may produce disagreement, but listening to one another and exchanging ideas respectfully and cooperating wherever and whenever we can, this is the essence of democracy and it is also the mission of diplomacy.

America supports the democratic aspirations of all people, not because we think ourselves perfect; to the contrary, it is precisely because we are imperfect, with a long history of failures and false starts, that we cherish democracy and support others who embrace its challenges. "

----------

So Liberty, I hereby totally reject your jaundiced vision for my nation's future, but I do hope you get a grip on your negativity, and help your own nation achive a better future than the one you envision for mine.
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ViaDrEtebar



Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 91

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:21 am    Post subject: Last minute note to Mr. Ledeen Reply with quote

Last minute note to Mr. Ledeen

Dear Mr. Ledeen

I have just noted the changes you have made in your panel.

I know that Mrs. Zand- Ervin and Mr. Riggi are not separatists. It is still unfortunate to see the foul mouth Shahbazi’s name in your panel.

The Persian civilization history goes back 7 to 9000 years ago. Persians do not constitute the minority or the majority,

during the last several thousand years the inter-ethnical marriages makes us Iranians all Persians and not segregated from each other. We do not have

racial or ethnical issues in Iran, this is just the cheap talk of a few (probably less than 50) people who are leftovers from Todeh party

and ex-KGB servants. Up to the point of IRI revolution in Iran, no one bothered different ethnicities, the way they dressed, the dialogue and dialect they

used or their specific customs or religion. This shows the tolerance among the Iranian (Persian) societies. If they did not have their own schools, it is not because

they were ignored or excluded, it is because Iran was an Under-developed country, for god sake we did not have enough schools, 7 years before the Shah was

overthrown, he built 2500 schools throughout Iran, we used high school graduate conscripts as teachers in villages and remote areas.

I hope that you are aware the IRI is already agitating the Iranians over the separatist issue, accusing the West intending to cause a civil war in Iran.

Many of these so called “separatists” are IRI MOIS agents whose role is to create conflict and disunity against the Iranians whom all are in opposition to IRI.

I hope that you conduct this seminar vigilantly enough so that you can deprive IRI and their agents form their satanic intentions.

The IRI atrocities are afflicting pain among all Iranians, regardless of gender, religion, ethnicity, language, race, color, and social, economic or political status.

The different ethnic Iranians shall fight the evil IRI regime shoulder to shoulder, not in disunity.

I hope you reflect my views in your seminar tomorrow.



Sincerely yours,



Dr. Ramin Etebar



Refrence to comments posted by Rahim Shahbazi:

http://groups.google.com/group/soc.culture.iranian/browse_thread/thread/9a1e863e8f328a9c/73cffc274db93de6?lnk=st&q=Rahim+Shahbazi+****+persian&rnum=3#73cffc274db93de6
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski graduate of Harvard University with good knowledge of history and Isalm partially responsible for what happened in Sept 11?

------------

Dear Cyrus,

I would say the answer to this is no....for one basic reason....it is impossible to predict what will happen politically 6 months from now, let alone a quarter century into the future.

One can of course speculate, but not with any degree of absolute certainty....and so while lack of vision being what it is can produce tragedy, that lack of vision is inherent in the human condition.

You think the Iranian people would have kicked the shah out, or would they have given him time to enact reforms??, if they knew for a fact that the Islamic regime would create far worse. Including a war costing a million lives, rampant inflation , poverty, suppression of dissent....and all the rest.

They would have killed Khomeni on site, you know it and I know it....but that didn't happen because no one could know what they know today.

Fact is some things just arn't knowable in advance....some are....Say your lady gets pregnant....you can reasonably be assured you're going to be a dad in 9 months....(chuckle)....but other than that, and knowing that snow will fall this winter, and the sun will rise tommorrow....you can't be certain about much in this world....especially where it concerns things that haven't happened yet.
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cyrus
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 4993

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oppenheimer wrote:
Is Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski graduate of Harvard University with good knowledge of history and Isalm partially responsible for what happened in Sept 11?

------------

Dear Cyrus,

I would say the answer to this is no....for one basic reason....it is impossible to predict what will happen politically 6 months from now, let alone a quarter century into the future.

One can of course speculate, but not with any degree of absolute certainty....and so while lack of vision being what it is can produce tragedy, that lack of vision is inherent in the human condition.

You think the Iranian people would have kicked the shah out, or would they have given him time to enact reforms??, if they knew for a fact that the Islamic regime would create far worse. Including a war costing a million lives, rampant inflation , poverty, suppression of dissent....and all the rest.

They would have killed Khomeni on site, you know it and I know it....but that didn't happen because no one could know what they know today.

Fact is some things just arn't knowable in advance....some are....Say your lady gets pregnant....you can reasonably be assured you're going to be a dad in 9 months....(chuckle)....but other than that, and knowing that snow will fall this winter, and the sun will rise tommorrow....you can't be certain about much in this world....especially where it concerns things that haven't happened yet.


Dear Oppenheimer,
He knew what mess he is creating with British support but he did not know one day this mess might create a bigger problem for US.

Dr. Zbigniew Brzezinski as Harvard graduate knew , mixing any religion and specially Islam with government is equal to big mess or dangerous Virous.

Yes, he could not possibly predict what is going to happen in next 6 months but he knew that he is creating a dangerous Virous.

Thanks,
Cyrus
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The West is opposed to the very existence of the Islamic Republic. If the [nuclear] problem is resolved, then they will bring up the issue of human rights. If the human rights issue is resolved, then they will probably bring up the issue of animal rights".


• Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, quoted in daily Jomhouri Islami, 24 October 2005

-----------------------------

Well, monkey boy, we'll bring up the IRI's terrorism dossier along the way, and we are investigating why so many birds have died in Iran lately....

Figure if you don't give a rat's ass about your people getting bird flu , the least the World health org can do is keep tabs on it.

Suprise suprise...monkey boy....90% of your population is opposed to the very existence of the Islamic Republic as well...
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Cyrus,

I think the US figured the fellow the shah apointed to run the country while he was dying of cancer could handle the situation....and miscalculated.

The fact that the shah was terminally ill was known to the western governments...and that must have been factored in.

RP was too young to have made a difference in the outcome, and internal upheaval was by no means simply generated by the west....

Add into the mix Soviet influence, and you had probably a no-win situation...you could do 20/20 hindsight forever, but it won't solve today's problems.

No use comparing today's international political situation to 26 years ago , because a lot's changed since then....
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