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ATTENTION CYRUS and ALL OTHER ACTIVISTS!!!!
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espandyar



Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 4:26 am    Post subject: ATTENTION CYRUS and ALL OTHER ACTIVISTS!!!! Reply with quote

We have very very bad news for Iranlovers eventhough Iam not allowed to go public yet I need to warn everyone about this news.

Please once the news is out ALL of you and your freinds and your relatives and people you know MUST act!

please stay tuned and be prepared!

regards
espandyar
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espandyar



Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2005 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, here we go:

I surly hope that Cyrus put this in front of the Activistchat.com page.
This is the very scenario that prooves who stands where:

The US think-tanks have now gathered not-known and insignificant groups who advovate seperatism of different regions. This movement is accurring under the cover of "federalism" but at a closer look at this groups past activity there is no doubt left what they are looking for.

The event is ccordinated by Michael Ledeen, the person who advocated democracy for Iran has now turned its back to Iranians and advocating seperatists. Americam Institute which Ledeen is a fellow member has very important connection with the policy makers in washington hence do not concider this as only one "event".

I hope that you realize the importance of everyone reaction to this. Imagine Iran without Atoorpadegan,kurdistan and khuzestan......

Let this body Ė no, let nobody live if there is no Iran.

October 11, 2005


Recent events coupled with the Islamic Republicís past actions have further solidified the fact there are no other avenues left for Iranians to free Iran other than a revolution. Iranians have a very small window of opportunity to organize a revolution. If Iranians fail to revolt against the Islamic Republic, powerful nations will follow their own design with regard to overthrowing the Islamic Republic and they will certainly not have the best interest of Iran nor Iranians in mind.


It appears the world has finally come to grips with the fact that attacking Iran militarily to overthrow the Islamic Republic is simply not feasible. As a result some powerful nations have begun supporting regional separatists in occupied Iran as a means by which to weaken the theocracy. With recent developments taking shape in countries such as Iraq, some within the international community now seem to believe that cutting Iran to pieces under the guise of federalism is the correct means by which to depose the Islamic Republic regime.


Comparing Iraq and Iran is akin to comparing oranges and bricks; there are no similarities. Iraq is a state that came about by grabbing regions of its current neighbors as a result of foreign intervention less than a hundred years ago. Iran has a history that spans thousands upon thousands of years. Throughout Iran's glorious history whenever Iran has been attacked, Iranians have rushed to defend their motherland with the most recent instance being the Iran-Iraq war.


This is a very stern warning to those attempting to compromise Iran's territorial integrity: stop your fruitless efforts in fermenting secession sentiments as a means to weaken the Islamic Republic and instead, focus your energy and support towards the real and tangible Iranian democratic movement.


The enemies of Iran should know, so long as there is one Iranian alive with blood pumping through his or her heart, even the thought of taking one grain of Iranian soil, will strongly be opposed and defeated.


Down with the Islamic Republic

Long Live Iran


Compiled by the Marze Por Gohar Party, Iranians for a secular republic.

http://marzeporgohar.org/index.php?l=1&cat=17&scat=31&artid=666
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espandyar



Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 5:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cyrus jan

This is what Iam talking about:
http://www.aei.org/events/type.upcoming,eventID.1166,filter.all/event_detail.asp

The various Iranian opposition gropus as been informaed and they are taking afirm stand.

ActivistChat.com has hereby offcially been informed about Ledeen event and it is up to you we you want to stand.

You are more than welcome to google info on the baluchi front and....pleaase share what you found with us!

Regards
espandyar
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excerpt from AEI:





"Of particular importance is the fact that although Iran is made up of various ethnic and religious groups, few realize that Persians likely constitute a minority of the Iranian population. The majority is composed of Azerbaijanis, Kurds, Baluchis, Turkmen, and the Arabs of Khuzistan / al-ahwaz. In the event the current regime falls, these groups will undoubtedly play an important role in their countryís future.

This AEI discussion will present representatives of these largely unknown elements of the Iranian population, all of whom are experiencing unprecedented levels of repression at the hands of the Islamic Republic. They will discuss their plight and hopes for a democratic future for Iran. Please join us in an AEI panel discussion with Dr. Ali Al-Taie , professor of sociology at Shaw University; Dr. Hussein Bor, from the Baluchistan United Front; Dr. Morteza Esfandiari, North American representative of the Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan; and Mr. Rahim M. Shahbazi, from the Azerbaijani Societies of North America. AEI resident scholar Michael A. Ledeen will moderate."


-------------

My question to you Espandyar is are you opposed to people having a discussion...

I see nothing about separatism in this, and what platforms these individuals take, or how this discussion proceeds...any future Democratic Iran will need to be inclusive of all voices for freedom.

Besides, in a Democratic society, ideas and opinions are freely expressed...whether they make sense or not....(chuckle).

As I said to Cyrus when we were discussing a possible "rountable discussion" between various opposition groups and any government reps from other nations (a la SMCCDI proposal to this effect) I said that there was an issue of inclusiveness, and groups not invited to take part would take offense.

You have simply confirmed my point.

This discussion is targeted to the represive policies of the regime against minority populations in Iran.....as for the AEI statement that... "Of particular importance is the fact that although Iran is made up of various ethnic and religious groups, few realize that Persians likely constitute a minority of the Iranian population."....I think that is incorrect.

So, my suggestion is to simply educate AEI, as their understanding of Bush's "Iran policy" is totally inadequate, let alone what the Iranian opposition as a multifaceted entity thinks.

In any case, folks are free to express their opinions, including AEI, but again, they don't make US policy...

We'll see what gets discussed, at any rate.
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espandyar



Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You think we are making a stand for we are not invited?
ok buddy what ever you say! But you just lots of credibility in my eyes!


OFFCOURSE the seperatis would not shout out that they are seperatist at the begining but all you need to do a research on their background. They are using the cover of federalism to reach their pre designed plans.

I am not sure if AEI need education, Imean this Ledeen guys has had the Iran file longer than many live so he is pretty sure what he is doing.

But as long as people shut up they continue to do what it is in THEIR interest and not Iranians regardless of how mant "good"article that this guy has wrote!

Iam sure that the opposition groups along with various organizations and individualls are going to come up with a join statement.

AEI has influence and they are sendi9ng a signal to the admin or reverse. In any rate they can dream of tearing Iran in pieces,again.

One cannot dissagree that this is the worst time of having a dialouge about having republic or monarchy or a cental gov or fed. The time for that is not now, we must simply focus on the IR.

Ledeen have done the worst he could in the worst time, however now we can see who stand were and that is good.

We know that some people on the opposition are concidering Ledeen as a great friend after this some admit that this is unacceptable concidering the background of some of these poeple. There are others who have the attetute that "let it go" for this time, those are willing to sell their mothers for a piece of power or wealth. There is no justification for what Ledeen is doing and its sure consuming the oppositions energy!
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Liberty Now !



Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 521

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Espandiar jan, if the separatists came to their senses and realized there is no way they can even say the word in front of most Iranians in their own region, let alone find any basis inside Iran (even with brit's backing- as separatism has long been on brit's wishlist), and so now they are settling for Federalism, then I don't see why we should put the word back in their mouth!
_________________
Paayande Iran
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espandyar



Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Liberty

They are not settling for anything they are just accomplishing one step in their process. See longer ahead.

This event that is promoting these people with a different agenda should be met with resistance from true IRAN lovers.

regards
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

espandyar, You wrote:

"You think we are making a stand for we are not invited?
ok buddy what ever you say! But you just lots of credibility in my eyes! "

Again you seem to do a real good job of misinterpreting my words...
I was refering to this....

Part of a post to Cyrus:

-----------
now you asked why Mr. Bush had not met with RP or any other opposition group....

One thing's for sure...he'd have to invite everyone...else some would feel snubbed (with the possible exception of the MEK for still being on the list of terrorist org's...which would preclude such a meeting by law)

SMCCDI suggested a roundtable "forum of the future" and it's a hell of an idea....and a very constructive suggestion.

So, I'll see what I can do to either make that happen, or give you a more concrete answer why it hasn't.

I think it would serve to mitigate the risk we both see in the US losing the faith of the Iranian people....but also consider the flip side ramifications wherein the press would freek right out and regime change and war speculation would run rampant...the IRI would freek out to the max....call it a Zionist conspiracy...etc. etc.

So I think it would be at a State Dept level, as an informational exchange of ideas, position, and policy...to benefit mutual understanding, issues of concern, things of that nature.

Would be interesting if some reps from various concerned nation's embassies were to take part as well....EU, Russia, China ....G8 members.

If I understand correctly, SMCCDI's letter to the G8 summit was well received, and it incorprated many of the same suggestions that were in the letter to Bolton.

So at least they're thinking about them...

----------

You wrote:

"I am not sure if AEI need education, Imean this Ledeen guys has had the Iran file longer than many live so he is pretty sure what he is doing."

I would venture to guess that they are holding this discussion for educational purposes...and as far as Ledeen is concerned, there's a lot he gets flat wrong, and some things he gets right.

If he did pose separatism as a viable option (and I havent seen a particular quote from him to suggest this yet) then he is pissing into the wind as far as what US policy has always supported (as illustrated by Bush's words, and historical fact).

It won't fly with the Iranian peoiple, and it won't fly with the US gov.

Now, In my opinion it is better to react to what is actually stated in this AEI discussion than to react in assumption of what may be said by various panelists.

Seems to me that the focus is on what the regime is doing to supress and harm various minority groups inside Iran, and so having them speak allows them to give testimony in the matter, which is I think a good thing in an of itself.

You may be reading a lot more into the intent of the discussion than logic would dictate....regardless of where these particular groups have been known to be coming from regarding "separatism".

I think what I'll do is email the AEI, and send them SMCCDI's letter to John Bolton (which is posted on activistchat), noting some concern and questions regarding "separatism" (because I don't think breaking up Iran before or after regime change would be a good thing...civil war..etc.)

The letter should give AEI some food for thought about the level of inclusiveness they have failed to take, or take into account by limiting this dialoge to so few representitives of a very large and diverse opposition, with many constructive and valid ideas and issues to bring to the table.

But I'm going to do this in a positive way, thanking them for their interest in having this discussion to illuminate the regime's crimes against humanity, at the same time I offer them constructive ideas on how they may hold a future roundtable discussion that includes a truly representitive cross section of the Iranian opposition, including the group you support, RP, SMCCDI, and various others Cyrus has made mention of in a positive way.

Since I'm going to be following up with a few phone calls anyway...and email, what's one more going to hurt?

Bottom line is it really doesn't matter much what you think of me...it's results that count...and in that...all I can do is try.

I've been asked by both Cyrus and SMCCDI to follow up with the "roundtable" idea with members of the US gov. and I'd appreciate your imput in a positive way, rather than the lack of faith and support you've shone me personally so far.
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cyrus
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 4993

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:01 pm    Post subject: Suggestion to fellow ActivistChat Members Reply with quote

Oppenheimer wrote:
Excerpt from AEI:



"Of particular importance is the fact that although Iran is made up of various ethnic and religious groups, few realize that Persians likely constitute a minority of the Iranian population. The majority is composed of Azerbaijanis, Kurds, Baluchis, Turkmen, and the Arabs of Khuzistan / al-ahwaz. In the event the current regime falls, these groups will undoubtedly play an important role in their countryís future.

This AEI discussion will present representatives of these largely unknown elements of the Iranian population, all of whom are experiencing unprecedented levels of repression at the hands of the Islamic Republic. They will discuss their plight and hopes for a democratic future for Iran. Please join us in an AEI panel discussion with Dr. Ali Al-Taie , professor of sociology at Shaw University; Dr. Hussein Bor, from the Baluchistan United Front; Dr. Morteza Esfandiari, North American representative of the Democratic Party of Iranian Kurdistan; and Mr. Rahim M. Shahbazi, from the Azerbaijani Societies of North America. AEI resident scholar Michael A. Ledeen will moderate."


-------------

My question to you Espandyar is are you opposed to people having a discussion...

I see nothing about separatism in this, and what platforms these individuals take, or how this discussion proceeds...any future Democratic Iran will need to be inclusive of all voices for freedom.

Besides, in a Democratic society, ideas and opinions are freely expressed...whether they make sense or not....(chuckle).

As I said to Cyrus when we were discussing a possible "rountable discussion" between various opposition groups and any government reps from other nations (a la SMCCDI proposal to this effect) I said that there was an issue of inclusiveness, and groups not invited to take part would take offense.

You have simply confirmed my point.

This discussion is targeted to the represive policies of the regime against minority populations in Iran.....as for the AEI statement that... "Of particular importance is the fact that although Iran is made up of various ethnic and religious groups, few realize that Persians likely constitute a minority of the Iranian population."....I think that is incorrect.

So, my suggestion is to simply educate AEI, as their understanding of Bush's "Iran policy" is totally inadequate, let alone what the Iranian opposition as a multifaceted entity thinks.

In any case, folks are free to express their opinions, including AEI, but again, they don't make US policy...

We'll see what gets discussed, at any rate.


Dear fellow ActivistChat Members,

Please use this post by Oppenheimer as a good example of presenting excellent constructive discussion . Independent of whether you agree with his comments and conclusion or not.
In this post Oppenheimer has done his research regarding your concern , highlighted the key points, made his comments and stated what he thinks clearly . Please try to follow this example in critical subjects and avoid personal attacks.
You may consider the following format for constructive discussion or make your suggestion :
- Present the case, facts and problem domain without dogma
- Analyze the problem
- Your comments
- Solution Domain and possible recommendations

In future if I receive complain regarding a Post by our fellow ActivistChat members, after review I will delete it , and if it happens very often I have no other choice except to disable your account.
Personal attack to other ActivistChat members and well know opposition leaders are not welcomed here.
Please focus your anger, attack, insult on Islamist regime and their supporters by stating facts and never against each other.
You may disagree with each other in polite manner and try to make discussion as constructive as possible with providing strong reasons and facts. We are here to increase public awareness and learn from each other. Our enemy has a lot of resources please try to use our limited resources in efficient manner. This is an open forum and I donít want to make many rules.

Another good example of good post is as below by Mr. Hakimi.

ViaHHakimi wrote:
Iran's heritage deserves respect from America and Europe

The greatness that was Persia continues to endure through the repeated turmoil of the Middle East

Martin Woollacott
Thursday October 13, 2005
The Guardian


As the protests and demonstrations which led to the fall of the Shah swelled in 1978, western reporters traveled the country to cover each new outbreak. Back in Tehran, a returning Time magazine correspondent was asked which trouble spot he had just visited. "Persepolis," he replied, "I'm the irony correspondent."
There had in fact been no big demonstrations near the ruins of the dynastic and ritual centre of the ancient Persian empire, but the Time man's instinct was nevertheless sound. The Shah's attempt to convince the world of his family's connection with the rulers of that empire
"( unfounded assumption or accusation by a Brit journalist) H.H." reached a point of folly with his coronation there in 1971 before an audience of royalty, politicians, and celebrities from abroad. This "picnic of unparalleled vulgarity",
( Fine, but how about the participation of respected members of your beloved ROYAL FAMILY in that "Picnic of unparalled vulgarity"?) H.H.
in the words of a former Iranian diplomat, had exactly the opposite effect to that intended. Besides the ruins and artefacts of a great empire the Shah looked like the parvenu he was, and to his more religious subjects he also looked like a man denying or diluting the country's Muslim faith.

(Another usual Brit Islamist in disguise) H.H.


Yet the Shah and his father, the soldier who seized
(Reza Shah did not SIZE the throne, HE was elected as Shah of Iran by the house of Iranian Parliament. Such was the Norwegian King Haakon- Get some history lessen if you are not prejudiced?) H.H.
the throne in Iran in 1926, were not wrong in seeking a source of legitimacy in the pre-Islamic past. The Persian empire lives on in the consciousness of modern Iran, providing a language of justice, protest and difference at home and shaping the country's relationships abroad. When Americans, for example, look at their dealings with Iran, they see a world power trying to cope with a small, difficult and potentially dangerous country. But when Iranians look at the same encounter, although at a practical level they register the same disparity, it is not absolutely fanciful to say that, at another, they see the relationship as one between equals.
One empire speaking to another - could this have been part of what Ayatollah Muhammad Khatami, the former president, meant by "a dialogue between civilizations"? Khatami never made it quite clear whether it was Iran alone, Islam alone, or a combination of the two, to which he was referring.

(Islam had no civilization to talk about. Where was the Islamic art & culture before they invaded Iran. Is there any monument in the entire Arab world before the Iranian took over the Arabs administration? If there was or is, please show us only one example! And Khatami is an imposter at best or out right traitor at worst)) H.H. But what is clear in his idea of dialogue is the need for respect, a respect to which Iran is entitled, in part, by virtue of its great history. Americans and Europeans misunderstand this at their peril.

How ancient history relates to modern problems is the question to be examined at a public forum on Iran organised jointly by the British Museum and the Guardian. It is certainly a difficult legacy. Italians shrugged off Mussolini's fantasies of a new Roman empire and derive their identity mainly from the Renaissance, while the Greeks are both proud of their ancient prowess and irritated by some of its consequences, like having to learn ancient Greek. India and China, emerging as substantial powers in the 21st century, have a relatively comfortable relationship with former greatness. But Iran labours under a double burden. First, its ancient past, not least because the role of another universal religion, Zoroastrianism, clashes with its Islamic identity. The analogous contradictions of Christianity with paganism, or modern Chinese secularism with Chinese religious tradition, are not of the same severity. Second, Iranians have a profound sense that the importance of their civilisation has never been as wholeheartedly acknowledged as that of others. Not by Arabs, who gloss over the contribution of Iranians during the Golden Age of Islam, not by Indians, who minimise Iranian influence in the subcontinent, and not by westerners, even though western scholars led in reconstructing the Iranian past.

Iranians reacted against the Shah's attempt to appropriate the pre-Islamic era, but they have also reacted against the Islamic Republic's attempts to suppress what remains of its traditions. Norouz, the old Iranian new year, is still enthusiastically celebrated, as is the fire festival of Charshanbeh suri. Iranians still call their children Cyrus, Darius, and Roxana after emperors and their consorts, even though the regime at one stage said such children would not get birth certificates. And, as Nasrin Alavi notes in her fascinating book We Are Iran, an anthology of Iranian blogs, even the regime seems to forget sometimes, for instance permitting IranAir planes to carry an image of Homa, the pagan Persian guardian of travellers.

The Iranian authorities have recently taken a different line. Under Khatami, western archaeologists returned to Iran to work on excavations with Iranian colleagues, there are new departments of pre-Islamic studies at some Iranian universities, and ancient Iranian history is back in the school curriculum. A surge of interest in the period brings new titles into the bookshops every year, although most are translations of western works.

The paradox of the Iranian attachment to the ancient past remains that it co-exists with much ignorance and with a striking gap between indigenous scholarship and that done abroad. As with other civilisations, much of Iran's history was brought to it by westerners - from the driven British army officer who scaled cliffs near Kermanshah to puzzle out cuneiform and other inscriptions to the French archaeologists who excavated Shush. The gap should have been closed by the growth of an indigenous scholarship. But, under the Islamic Republic, according to a publisher who specialises in Middle Eastern titles, there has been "not one book in 30 years" written in Iran on any period of Iranian history, Islamic or pre-Islamic, "that would stand the scrutiny of western scholarship". Others are less harsh, and things appear to be changing, but the impressive scholarship on Iran by Iranians is in the diaspora.

Those who know Iran well say that ordinary Iranians can have a surprisingly limited or scrambled view of their history. Yet they also have a grasp of poetry and literature which puts their western equivalents to shame. The manner in which they are able to pluck out a line of Hafiz or Ferdausi to illustrate a point is enviable. Iranian poetry, because its oblique and sometimes coded nature allows it to reconcile or evade contradictions, may offer the nearest to a synthesis of Islamic and pre-Islamic identity as can be found.

But as Richard Frye, the American Iranologist, has said: "Few nations present more of a justification for the study of history." This is a nation that has survived turmoil, has suffered from it, and has in its day several times brought order out of turmoil in the Middle East. In another time of troubles, it would be a wise course on both sides if empire could indeed speak unto empire.

∑ The unbroken arc: what ancient Persia tells us about modern Iran. This public forum, supported by the Guardian and chaired by Jon Snow, is at the British Museum on Tuesday October 18, from Pam. Tickets are £10, available on 020-7323 8181 or at

(For your information, according to the latest news fro,m Iran, The Tent City which was erected for the " Picnic of unparalleled vulgarity" is going to be repaired by the IRI? So much for the power of the PERSIAN EMPIRE?!) H.H.

martin.woollacott@guardian.co.uk


Thank you for your great contributions for Increasing Public Awareness, Free Society, Secular Democracy and FREE IRAN.

Regards,
Cyrus
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Spenta



Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Posts: 1829

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have noticed more support for separatism from both the US & British govt.s which is definately not good!!!

The AEI/Ledeen conference doesn't seem to openly advocate separatism, but it depends on the speakers and what angle they take.

The problem is the IRI has done some pretty hideous and horrible things to the Kurds, Baluchis and Ahvazi's in particular. Splitting off Iran is about preventing it from ever becoming a regional power under any kind of govt. and it will be negative and very bad for all Iranian groups! Together they pack more power and have more resources than split up.

The really bad news is the sad and sorry state of the addict nation that doesn't seem to care about anything ... including Tajzeeyeh ... Sad
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cyrus
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Posts: 4993

PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2005 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

espandyar wrote:
OK, here we go:

I surly hope that Cyrus put this in front of the Activistchat.com page.
This is the very scenario that prooves who stands where:

The US think-tanks have now gathered not-known and insignificant groups who advovate seperatism of different regions. This movement is accurring under the cover of "federalism" but at a closer look at this groups past activity there is no doubt left what they are looking for.

The event is ccordinated by Michael Ledeen, the person who advocated democracy for Iran has now turned its back to Iranians and advocating seperatists. Americam Institute which Ledeen is a fellow member has very important connection with the policy makers in washington hence do not concider this as only one "event".

I hope that you realize the importance of everyone reaction to this. Imagine Iran without Atoorpadegan,kurdistan and khuzestan......

Let this body Ė no, let nobody live if there is no Iran.

October 11, 2005


Recent events coupled with the Islamic Republicís past actions have further solidified the fact there are no other avenues left for Iranians to free Iran other than a revolution. Iranians have a very small window of opportunity to organize a revolution. If Iranians fail to revolt against the Islamic Republic, powerful nations will follow their own design with regard to overthrowing the Islamic Republic and they will certainly not have the best interest of Iran nor Iranians in mind.


It appears the world has finally come to grips with the fact that attacking Iran militarily to overthrow the Islamic Republic is simply not feasible. As a result some powerful nations have begun supporting regional separatists in occupied Iran as a means by which to weaken the theocracy. With recent developments taking shape in countries such as Iraq, some within the international community now seem to believe that cutting Iran to pieces under the guise of federalism is the correct means by which to depose the Islamic Republic regime.


Comparing Iraq and Iran is akin to comparing oranges and bricks; there are no similarities. Iraq is a state that came about by grabbing regions of its current neighbors as a result of foreign intervention less than a hundred years ago. Iran has a history that spans thousands upon thousands of years. Throughout Iran's glorious history whenever Iran has been attacked, Iranians have rushed to defend their motherland with the most recent instance being the Iran-Iraq war.


This is a very stern warning to those attempting to compromise Iran's territorial integrity: stop your fruitless efforts in fermenting secession sentiments as a means to weaken the Islamic Republic and instead, focus your energy and support towards the real and tangible Iranian democratic movement.


The enemies of Iran should know, so long as there is one Iranian alive with blood pumping through his or her heart, even the thought of taking one grain of Iranian soil, will strongly be opposed and defeated.


Down with the Islamic Republic

Long Live Iran


Compiled by the Marze Por Gohar Party, Iranians for a secular republic.

http://marzeporgohar.org/index.php?l=1&cat=17&scat=31&artid=666



Dear espandyar,
Thank you for information, this is an important subject, I will discuss it with others for careful consideration, research and review before making any joint statement.
As I said it before in another thread this is in complete contradiction with President Bush statement few months ago.
Bush concluded: "America believes in the independence and territorial integrity of Iran. America believes in the right of the Iranian people to make their own decisions and determine their own future. America believes that freedom is the birthright and deep desire of every human soul. And to the Iranian people, I say: As you stand for your own liberty, the people of America stand with you."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/16/AR2005061601056.html

Regards,
Cyrus
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 2:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Spenta,

You wrote:

"I have noticed more support for separatism from both the US & British govt.s which is definately not good!!! "

Could you possibly post the source article here, or quote regarding your notice of concern?

Because honestly, I review damn near every statement from both the US and EU govs on a daily basis, and I've yet to see anything to suggest this.

I mean a good two hours daily doing so....like clockwork as I sit having coffee in the morning...and direct from the source...not media.

I'd like to see Ledeen's comments supporting separatism as well, if available.

Be working on this over the weekend to deliver by Monday to AEI, so it would be nice to see where the source of all this smoke is coming from..if you know what I mean....
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Oppenheimer



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Cyrus,

Thanks for that kind comment....though I didn't feel I had really articulated the issues all that well after I posted it...and if I had I wouldn't have been misunderstood...but se'est la vi.

There are assumptions that need to be addressed, which cause friction, misunderstanding and just plain nuralgia which manifest in any number of negative ways.

One I've always noted within the opposition itself is that there is this great focus on personalities and platforms, at the expense of process.

The issue and question of who legitimately speaks for the opposition can be summed up in one sentence.

" Everyone speaks for no one and no one speaks for everyone."

Therefore if one expects to lead it is false assumption, if one expects to have the only true vision, it is at the expense of other's...the correct path to democracy is in standing on principal and compromising on preferences, not standing on preferences and compromising principals.

It is therefore a process of concurrance and common ground, forged in debate, dialoge, and creative solutions in reaching compromise in which no one is quite satisfied, and no one is discontent with.

Oh yeah, forgot.....I never said it was easy....(chuckle).

Now regarding this:


"Recent events coupled with the Islamic Republicís past actions have further solidified the fact there are no other avenues left for Iranians to free Iran other than a revolution. Iranians have a very small window of opportunity to organize a revolution. "

I've stated the same for some time, and it becomes increasingly obvious.

"If Iranians fail to revolt against the Islamic Republic, powerful nations will follow their own design with regard to overthrowing the Islamic Republic and they will certainly not have the best interest of Iran nor Iranians in mind."

This is complete and utter assumtion of other's hypothetical intent.

I mean, some Iranians must think all nations are nitwits....why the heck would we risk involvement, the lives of our people, money and resources to liberate you (if that is what ultimately must take place for lack of other option) from the abominible regime you folks suffer under if we inherently were not acting in the best interest of Iran by doing so?

Really, this mindset is manifest above (in red) as an absurd statement on its face, and I'm not going to mince words....if we have to intervene....the IRI is toast....and you are better off for it....period. The future post-regime Iran will be up to you to determine, by direct referendum, and the vote.

What do we get out of the investment?

The elimination of a threat to mankind....period. Nothing else trumps that. Not oil, not economic incentive, nothing....


"It appears the world has finally come to grips with the fact that attacking Iran militarily to overthrow the Islamic Republic is simply not feasible."

Another false assumption. And I've illustrated how the regime could be castrated in totality in 30 minutes or less without massive casualties in other posts.

"As a result some powerful nations have begun supporting regional separatists in occupied Iran as a means by which to weaken the theocracy."

This is where the premis totally falls apart, as it not only fails to offer substance in fact to back up the claim, the statement flies in the face of current policy in Iraq, as mandated by UN resolutions, and simply assumes intent without basis.

Did not Cyrus the Great set up a "federalist" style government?

States and/or provinces answerable to a central government under a common constitution ratified by all people of the nation is what federal government is comprised of, including checks and balances between states rights and federal constitutional law.


Last edited by Oppenheimer on Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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espandyar



Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oppenheimer wrote:
espandyar, You wrote:

"You think we are making a stand for we are not invited?
ok buddy what ever you say! But you just lots of credibility in my eyes! "

Quote:
Again you seem to do a real good job of misinterpreting my words...
I was refering to this....

Part of a post to Cyrus:

-----------
now you asked why Mr. Bush had not met with RP or any other opposition group....

One thing's for sure...he'd have to invite everyone...else some would feel snubbed (with the possible exception of the MEK for still being on the list of terrorist org's...which would preclude such a meeting by law)

SMCCDI suggested a roundtable "forum of the future" and it's a hell of an idea....and a very constructive suggestion.

So, I'll see what I can do to either make that happen, or give you a more concrete answer why it hasn't.

I think it would serve to mitigate the risk we both see in the US losing the faith of the Iranian people....but also consider the flip side ramifications wherein the press would freek right out and regime change and war speculation would run rampant...the IRI would freek out to the max....call it a Zionist conspiracy...etc. etc.

So I think it would be at a State Dept level, as an informational exchange of ideas, position, and policy...to benefit mutual understanding, issues of concern, things of that nature.

Would be interesting if some reps from various concerned nation's embassies were to take part as well....EU, Russia, China ....G8 members.

If I understand correctly, SMCCDI's letter to the G8 summit was well received, and it incorprated many of the same suggestions that were in the letter to Bolton.

So at least they're thinking about them...

----------

You wrote:

"I am not sure if AEI need education, Imean this Ledeen guys has had the Iran file longer than many live so he is pretty sure what he is doing."

I would venture to guess that they are holding this discussion for educational purposes...and as far as Ledeen is concerned, there's a lot he gets flat wrong, and some things he gets right.

If he did pose separatism as a viable option (and I havent seen a particular quote from him to suggest this yet) then he is pissing into the wind as far as what US policy has always supported (as illustrated by Bush's words, and historical fact).

It won't fly with the Iranian peoiple, and it won't fly with the US gov.

Now, In my opinion it is better to react to what is actually stated in this AEI discussion than to react in assumption of what may be said by various panelists.

Seems to me that the focus is on what the regime is doing to supress and harm various minority groups inside Iran, and so having them speak allows them to give testimony in the matter, which is I think a good thing in an of itself.

You may be reading a lot more into the intent of the discussion than logic would dictate....regardless of where these particular groups have been known to be coming from regarding "separatism".

I think what I'll do is email the AEI, and send them SMCCDI's letter to John Bolton (which is posted on activistchat), noting some concern and questions regarding "separatism" (because I don't think breaking up Iran before or after regime change would be a good thing...civil war..etc.)

The letter should give AEI some food for thought about the level of inclusiveness they have failed to take, or take into account by limiting this dialoge to so few representitives of a very large and diverse opposition, with many constructive and valid ideas and issues to bring to the table.

But I'm going to do this in a positive way, thanking them for their interest in having this discussion to illuminate the regime's crimes against humanity, at the same time I offer them constructive ideas on how they may hold a future roundtable discussion that includes a truly representitive cross section of the Iranian opposition, including the group you support, RP, SMCCDI, and various others Cyrus has made mention of in a positive way.

Since I'm going to be following up with a few phone calls anyway...and email, what's one more going to hurt?

Bottom line is it really doesn't matter much what you think of me...it's results that count...and in that...all I can do is try.

I've been asked by both Cyrus and SMCCDI to follow up with the "roundtable" idea with members of the US gov. and I'd appreciate your imput in a positive way, rather than the lack of faith and support you've shone me personally so far.



Quote:
Again you seem to do a real good job of misinterpreting my words...
I was refering to this....


Ok!



We are very well aware of the oppression that different Iranian etnicities are suffering and in fact we have had different conferences about religios and etnicities under the Islamic republic.
We would welcome these kind of events ( even is we are not invited or mentioned or even ignored) as the goal with such conferences is to shed light on IR crimes. However it is of importance to realize that Islamic Republic is not an PERSIAN ( or even Iranian for that matter) regime as some of this people on the planed panel has calimed. In fact non of the leading mullahs are persian they are from different parts of Iran. What these seperatist bastards claim is that they have been supressed by the Persians and hence.....
This is incorrect as the tyrans have rarely been of persian orgin. No that it matter where you are from as we are all IRANIANS but this is their claim in such arguments.

Some of the groups that are invided have very clear intentons as it will follow up in the next statement. If we give Ledeen benefit of the doubt for his lack of knowledge ( which I cant buy) it would be reasonable for him to listen to the critic that has been pointed toward this event.

As for the SMCCDI suggestion, I need more information in order to give you a input.

ps. I have not showed you lack of faith or support in fact we have had good arguments, it might be the way I simply say what I think but it does not mean lack of faith or support.
everyone who are fighting the regime for a secular democracy without any other aganda has my and my compatriots support!


Regards
espandyar
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We are very well aware of the oppression that different Iranian etnicities are suffering and in fact we have had different conferences about religios and etnicities under the Islamic republic.
-----------

Yeah, and so is the US gov. I've seen their State Dept statement on the Kurdish uprising this past summer, in regards to concerns expressed of the way the IRI repressed it.

As for "Iranian Regime" My interpretation of that is "the regime that rules the territory of Iran"....simple. Non political, non ethnic centered, and very accurate.

Now, I don't really give a rat's ass where these bloody mullahs came from, who their liniage is, what hole they crawled out of, or what hidey-hole they'll end up in in their last days of existence.

As long as they don't polute the world with their deeds anymore.

See, this is something I don't know if most Iranians really get yet at this point....this isn't really about the Iranian people's future alone....my kid's future's at risk as much as your's are....

Oh yeah, be damned sure we'll act if we have to to make sure the IRI's gone for good...

Think the Israeli's were joking when they came to the US and flat told folks to deal with the regime before they had to?

Bottom line for them is if Russia decides to deliver nuclear fuel, they have to assume now that Russia doesn't care if it starts a war by doing so.

By this I mean there won't be a reactor to deliver it to....period.

Personally, I don't think Russia will attempt to deliver the goods under those conditions.

But it doesn't end there...the Brits are fed up, the US is fed up...France is fed up...and the Germans...well there's a new government...we'll see...Iraq is totally fed up...as is Saudia Arabia, Jordan, and a few other Arab states.

IAEA meeting in what? Less than a month....Canada's Human Rights resolution on Iran goes before the UN soon, ....

It's a "full court press" as it's put in basketball terms, of intense coverage.

Now it seems that most info about the regime's activities are coming through the MEK....at least in press reports....and folks in the opposition may want to think about this a moment....most groups have contacts inside Iran, and now is the time if there ever was one to bring a full court press of info to the light of day in every aspect of the regime's intent and activities....good solid confirmable info....that will be irrefutable.

If you cannot overthrow the regime, you can give cause for the international community to act without doubt of the correctness of their actions.

As for SMCCDI's suggestion, it was originally posed in this following letter:

The "Student Movement Coordination Committee for Democracy
in Iran" (SMCCDI)
_______________________


January 27, 2005

The Honorable George W. Bush
President of the United States of America
The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington DC - 20500

Via Federal Express

C/c: Fax (202) 456-2461
e-mail: president@whitehouse.gov
vice.president@whitehouse.gov


Dear Mr. President,

On behalf of the Student Movement Coordination
Committee for Democracy in Iran (SMCCDI), and the good
people of our nation who have striven so long for freedom,
we wish to extend our most sincere and humble thanks and
gratitude for the words you spoke in celebration and
support of freedom for all people. Words ringing out
clearly as the liberty bell itself, when as a witness
described, "It rang as if it meant something.".


Mr. President, be assured that the reverberations of
the ringing clarity of your words have been heard in our
country, and indeed they mean something.
Something extraordinary, for there is again hope in the
eyes of our people that they may shrug off the oppressors
and theocratic chains which have bound the people for so
long. Chains which have silenced the voice of my people in
utterance, and stilled them with overwhelming force. Chains
denying the Iranian people a better future for our
children, and our children's children for over a generation
in this process.


Mr. President, SMCCDI's constant public support for both
yourself, your correct vision, and your policies as
reflected in our last letter of Feb.16, 2004 has been
consistently well founded, just as millions of Iranians
were correct in supporting you and placing their hopes in
your re-election. Our resources and weight of public
support were lent as well to help you defeat your
challenger who, backed by some very controversial
fundraisers of Iranian origin in the process, was pushing
for official ties with the Islamic Republic of Iran. This
was of great concern to our people, both here in the US and
in Iran. The overwhelming majority of Iranians in the US
supported you in this re-election, and have been rewarded
by your words of support for doing so.


Mr. President, Our opposition movement (SMCCDI) is
bound by a charter formed on principals such as; Human
rights, Democracy, separation of church and states, and
free markets. We believe these principals represent the
most fair and efficient means for humanity to realize its
potential. Ultimately, no repressive, intolerant regime can
withstand the spread of these ideals.

The Islamic Republic regime currently in power in Iran or
any Islamic variances that may exist there in the future
are no exception. By staying true to these values our
triumph is absolutely, positively, and undeniably
inevitable.


Mr. President, We the people of the Iranian opposition
groups both within Iran and spread among many free nations,
including the future leaders you spoke of contained within,
can serve not only as a force for freedom and change, but
as a bridge between our two peoples. To serve in the
process of creating a new political structure for the
Iranian people, and a new beginning for Iran and America, a
beginning founded on values, mutual trust, respect,
long-term interests and friendship.


Mr. President, We take the truth in your words to be
self-evident, and those words honor the ideals of your
great civil rights leader, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
expressed in the following: "Today there is no longer a
choice between violence and non-violence. It is either
non-violence or non-existence. I feel that we've got to
look at this total thing anew and recognize that we must
live together. That the whole world now it is one--not only
geographically but it has to become one in terms of
brotherly concern. Whether we live in America or Asia or
Africa we are all tied in a single garment of destiny and
whatever effects one directly, effects one in-directly."


Mr. President, we the people of Iran, are faced not only
with the chains of political and religious oppression,
poverty, despair, drug abuse, and lack of civil liberties.

We of the opposition should have been able to jointly
prepare a correct and specific program during these last
years. We need now to seize these current internal and
external opportunities that exist, to free our country and
respond to our people's legitimate aspirations, and to the
world's concerns.
And through this, we hope to create a coordinated effort to
obtained the necessary moral and financial support that
will lead to the downfall of the Islamist Republic regime.

Inherently, we seek to bring our nation full circle with
the best parts of our cultural heritage, and the values and
freedoms in which Persia was founded upon. These same
principals form the basis of commonality between our two
cultures today. However, those that have usurped and
distorted our traditions must be removed from power and
denied influence in any new political structure that may
rise from the ashes of our despair, as the fires of freedom
light the darkest corners of our nation, and create the
light of hope in the eyes of the Iranian people.

Mr. President, The "sham" reforms brought to us over the
years by questionable individuals who are hoping only to
save part of their backwarded ideology have proven
themselves unworthy of the cultural traditions and precepts
that Cyrus the Great founded Persia upon over 2500 years
ago. Those ancient precepts regarding freedom of worship,
individual right to own property, freedom from slavery,
representative government in a democratic
"federalist" government that respected the states rights to
determine local laws so long as they were consistent with
the inherent rights of the people, respecting territorial
integrity in the process, have proven themselves over time
and among many cultures.

These same sham reformers who have continued to allow the
stoning of women, continued under the laws of the Islamic
Republic regime to regard our women as worth exactly half
that of a man in their courts, continued to deny our women
their god given rights, disenfranchising half the
population in the process in all aspects of their civil
liberties. Nor can they be allowed to influence the future
we seek. Those that have been party to the denial of human
rights can not be tolerated as being any part or party to
our political future. Nor partake (i.e. Nazi party-post WW2
not allowed), in any part of any new secular government
chosen by the people, of the people, and for the people to
initiate a US/UN monitored direct constitutional referendum
mandated and ratified through the process of forming a new
political structure and the rule of law which it must
ascribe to.


Sir, It is the women, suffering under gender apartheid
conditions, who represent a large part of the opposition,
and will make a major contribution through their degree of
knowledge, and political and civil maturity to the
democratic and peaceful revolution we seek to manifest, as
well as to a future democratic Iran. We cannot carry such
baggage or the individuals who continue to deny women their
place in society in this process of regaining our freedom
and their equality in the process.


Mr. President, We in the opposition movement see the
strong two-faced diplomacy the Islamic Republic regime is
engaged in, that has not only caused nations to appease the
evil regime with offers of economic incentive, but that has
caused others to support their blind ambitions.

We see the effects of this diplomacy on some members of
Congress, government and international think-tanks, the UN
and the IAEA. We see the confusion in policy that has been
proposed by former members of various governments, and we
strongly urge you to address their perceptions in this most
grave and dangerous illusion of "engagement" that they have
been following, as soon as possible. For them to continue
to do so would amount to purchasing those chains that hold
us in bondage.

We believe it would be criminally negligent for any nation
to support the continuance and aspirations of the Islamic
Republic regime one day longer.

In the founding of a new political structure in a free,
secular, and democratic Iran, through our people's voice,
having international support for our cause, only then will
the international community rest assured that the threat
the Islamic Republic regime poses to all of us, is gone for
once and for all. The state of the internal parameters
existing today inside Iran, are such that they are ripe for
democratic revolution.


Mr. President, We believe the minor problems resulting
in splits among opposition groups can be resolved by your
eloquent inaugural speech and your continued moral and
logistical support. Now is the time for us to come together
and face the dangers.

Not the least of which is the danger that the opposition
movement itself faces from regime elements located all over
the world. In much the same way Saddam targeted his
opposition, we face those same threats, both physically and
politically at home and abroad by the following methodology
of the Islamic Republic regime:
Distract, Deceive, Discredit, Discourage, and Dismember the
opposition, wherever it may be found. How these methods
manifest itself in action, is varied, effective, and
coordinated by the theocratic regime through it's agents,
and proxy. Including targeted assassinations on our future
leaders.

These methods of threat and intimidation must be addressed
if your words and bond of moral and financial support are
to become manifest by our action in a positive and
effective manner to bring a quicker end to this evil
regime.


Sir, We face a common threat, and I stress that in no
way do we seek any form of military intervention to obtain
the freedom we aspire to achieve.

In our method of civil disobedience, we require the firm
moral support in action by the international community, and
the financial backing to follow through of our own accord,
to help millions of Iranian workers and citizens take their
nation back, through peaceful protest and strike.

The solutions we may find together in dialogue between our
two peoples and within the opposition groups resulting in
the coordination of our efforts and actions in the face of
a common enemy, hinge on a unified moral stance within the
community of nations to halt any and all support for the
Islamic Republic regime, it's terrorist allies, and its
economic and political base.


Mr. President, Never before has a foreign leader taken
such a noble and realistic position in support of the
Iranian people and for people everywhere who have suffered
for so long in despair and isolation.

We offer to you these prayers of suggestion in the hope
they may be considered by your Administration, Congress,
the American people, America's Allies and friends, the UN,
and people of all nations.

These suggestions are based on two tracks. The isolation of
the Islamic Republic regime, and the essential moral and
financial support needed by legitimate non-violent
opposition groups to move on the opportunity that now
exits. Together, in a coordinated way, we will achieve
success. God willing.

1. Implementation of full international economic and
military sanctions on the Islamic Republic regime via UN
security council resolution based on human rights, support
for terrorism, and this to be tabled with or without IAEA
board recommendation on the nuclear threat the theocracy
poses. These two issues alone should be viewed as
circumstance the world cannot turn it's back upon, at risk
of civilization itself. Such measures should include
coordination with oil producing nations to ensure stable
world supply while sanction persists, as well as the
halting of any and all arms transfers to the Islamic
Republic regime.

Note: We believe it is unwise to continue nuclear power
discussions until such time as secular government ratified
by the people in Iran comes to power. And rest assured Mr.
President, any new government, abiding by the rule of law,
can and will work with the IAEA in full cooperation to
implement the safeguards and protocols, to address all
aspects and concerns regarding the peaceful use of atomic
power, and to dismantle any and all existing programs that
may violate them.

2. Full diplomatic sanction and closing of Iranian
embassies world-wide, removal and deportation of regime
representatives, their agents and spies from all nations.
Diplomatic sanction by the UN, and removal of
representation from this international forum till such time
as a legitimate interim government can be established in
Iran. Iran is party to the 1948 UN charter, yet not having
been a signatory the Islamic Republic regime is abysmally
derelict in it's adherence to the provisions contained
within it.

Note: We ask that concerns regarding lack of consular
functions as a result of this action be cooperatively
addressed, so as to continue to allow emergency visas to be
issued. (i.e. family emergencies, etc.) It may be possible
to retain the minimum consular functions, under tight
supervision, but they are well known in their recruiting
of, and issuing visa to potential martyrs and terrorists.
As well, We feel it is unwise to allow the Islamic Republic
regime to maintain a UN staff of aprox. 400 "diplomats",
who consistently violate the 12 mile limit, engage in
activities not associated with diplomatic function, and
pose a threat to US interests and Iranian opposition groups
located in the US.

3. Freezing of any and all financial assets of the
Islamic Republic regime, their current and former
leadership, and corporate interests world-wide, till such
time as a new interim government can be established. As
well as allocation of portions of these assets now to
legitimate non-violent opposition groups inside and outside
Iran, to realize the goals, and to provide the tangible
support needed as civil disobedience becomes manifest in
action. Only in this way can this action be self sustaining
till it succeeds.

4. Repeated statements by world leaders publicly
calling for the leadership of the Islamic Republic regime
to step down peacefully, and to relinquish the government
to the hands and will of the Iranian people.

5. The coordinated post-regime rebuilding of vital
social institutions and infrastructure of democracy should
be implemented now. The training of judges, civil servants,
police, etc. The Iranian exile community can provide the
talent, initially and there are many more inside Iran
supporting the opposition who will answer the call to
service as the situation permits. This will speed up the
post-regime process, and greatly enhance stability in the
interim government.

In addition, while SMCCDI does not speak for other groups
in the opposition, we believe it is vital for our efforts
to become coordinated in the formation of a working group
among leaders of opposition groups, in conjunction with
free nation's representatives to facilitate and coordinate
all of the above measures.
To facilitate this, we would humbly request that you grant
audience to the opposition's young leaders, be they
Monarchist, Republican, Democrat, moderate, left, or right
as may be represented by their group's opinions, allowing
them to express their thanks and support for the greater
Middle East project, in a roundtable "Forum for the Future"
of Iran.

Mr. President, The proposed sanctions to be implemented
will represent a hardship for our people residing in Iran,
and we will most certainly face violent opposition toward
our civil disobedience actions. But the hope that will
sustain the millions of workers and government employees
that will rise and shut down the functioning of the Islamic
Republic regime while the sanctions persist, will cause
their will to succeed to hold firm. It is our hope that the
resolve and support of the international community will
stand firm as well.

We believe these measures are warranted under current
international law, and various resolutions in the UN
regarding human rights, and state sponsors of terrorism.


Mr. President, God willing with your help and through
our own efforts, along with those supporting our efforts
via moral and logistical support, we will light a fire as
well, and sustain that fire in the minds of all nations.

Your words have warmed the hearts of the Iranian people,
just as they burn those who fight our progress. And one
day, this untamed fire of freedom will reach the darkest
corners of our nation. That day is fast upon us, and we ask
that all free nations move as suggested without delay,
"seized of the matter", in order to aid us in this noble
endeavor.


Sincerely Yours,


On behalf of SMCCI,

Aryo B . Pirouznia (Movement's Coordinator)




SMCCDI
5015 Addison Circle #244 Addison Texas 75001 (USA)
www.daneshjoo.org ; www.iranstudents.org
Tel: +1 (972) 504-6864 ; Fax: +1 (972) 491-9866
E-Mail: smccdi@daneshjoo.org
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