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[FREE IRAN Project] In The Spirit Of Cyrus The Great
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Eternal1
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 52
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 Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:53 am Post subject: |
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Although this is not in response to any previous post, last night I happened to find, by luck, an article which mentioned a study carried out by one Emad al-Din Baghi.
I am sure you all probably know this, but based on a thorough study of executions under the Shah, from the sixties onwards, the number totalled 3164.
This of course strongly undermines previous reports that the Shah had killed thousands of people.
If anyone could direct me to a more comprehensive source regarding this study, it would be most appreciated.
The western media must have known this, although not so long ago they were have still potraying the Shah as a dictatorous killer. |
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reza
Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 466
Location: England
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 10:37 am Post subject: |
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over 3000 executions is despicable for the man who some claim to be iran's greatest leader. 1 execution is as bad as a thousand.
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"When on the battlefield if you have the sole intention of breaking into the enemy lines, you will manifest martial valour. Furthermore if you are slain in battle you should be resolved to having your corpse facing the enemy" - Yamamoto tsunetomo |
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Azadeh_55
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 467
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| Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Although this is not in response to any previous post, last night I happened to find, by luck, an article which mentioned a study carried out by one Emad al-Din Baghi. |
This is the report he made for the regime's "Bonyad e Shahid e Enghelaab e Eslami" (The Islamic Revolutionary Martyr's Foundation). I would take anything that comes out of studies funded by the mullahs with a grain or salt (or maybe a couple of table spoons). But from what I understand, those aren't the number of people executed but the number of people killed during the Shah's regime. Of those 3,164 people killed, 2,781 were killed in nation wide disturbances in 1978/79 following clashes between demonstrators who wanted Khomeini to come to power and the Shah's army and security forces. They were killed because our police was trying to protect us by preventing these Islamic thugs from bringing Khomeini to power (who would later execute well over 100,000 people and cause the death of over a million by draging out an 8 year war and cause the death of thousands more each year by mismanaging roads and buying faulty airplanes from Ukraine and not fixing our hospital systems, etc). The ones who were executed include people who assassinated government officials and prime ministers.
| Quote: | A Question of Numbers
August 08, 2003
Rouzegar-Now
Cyrus Kadivar
Rumours, exaggerated claims by the leaders of the Islamic revolution and a disinformation campaign against the fallen monarchy, not to mention Western media reports that the imperial regime was guilty of "mass murders", has finally been challenged by a former researcher at the Martyrs Foundation (Bonyad Shahid). The findings by Emad al-Din Baghi, now a respected historian, has caused a stir in the Islamic republic for it boldly questions the true number of casualties suffered by the anti-Shah movement between 1963 and 1979.
In the aftermath of the fall of the Pahlavi dynasty in 1979, Ayatollah Khomeini, the leader of the Islamic revolution, ordered the creation of the Martyrs Foundation with the sole purpose of identifying the names of the so-called "martyrs" and provide financial support for their families as well as those who had sustained injuries in the fierce street battles with royalist troops. The necessary funds were immediately raised from the assets seized from the high officials in the Shah's regime, many of whom had been executed after summary trials.
For many years the Martyrs Foundation collected the names of the victims of the anti-Shah revolution classifying them by age, sex, education, profession and address. The files were kept secret until 1996/7 when a decision was made to make public the figures on the anniversary of the revolution. At about this time, Emad al-Dib Baghi, was hired as a researcher and editor of the bonyad's magazine "Yad Yaran" (Remembering our Comrades) to make sense of the data. By the time his work had finished he was told that the names were not to be made public. The reason given was that to pursue the matter would run contrary to the statements made by the late Ayatollah Khomeini and his successors who claimed that "60,000 men, women and children were martyred by the Shah's regime."
Emad al-Din Baghi who left the Martyrs Foundation to write two books on the subject claims that the authorities felt that releasing the true statistics would simply confuse the public. So, officials continued to stick to the exaggerated numbers. During a debate in the Majlis at the height of the US hostage crisis, an Islamic deputy claimed that giving in to America would be an insult to the memory of "70,000 martyrs and 100,000 wounded who fought to destroy the rotten monarchy." In fact, by continuing the myth that so many people had been killed, the regime was able to buy a certain legitimacy for its "noble revolution" and excesses.
"Sooner or later the truth was bound to come out," Baghi argued. In his opinion history should be based on objective findings and not baseless rumours which was the root of the anti-Shah hysteria and street demonstrations in 1978 and 1979. The true numbers are fascinating because contrary to the official view they are quite low and highly disproportionate to the hundreds of thousands murdered in the last 24 years in the Islamic republic.
The statistical breakdown of victims covering the period from 1963 to 1979 adds up to a figure of 3,164. Of this figure 2,781 were killed in nation wide disturbances in 1978/79 following clashes between demonstrators and the Shah's army and security forces. Baghi has no reason to doubt these figures and believes that it is probably the most comprehensive number available with the possible exception of a few names that were not traced.
During the years separating the arrest of Khomeini on 5th June 1963 for instigating the riots against the Shah's White Revolution and his return from exile on 1st February 1979, most of the 3,164 victims were in Tehran, Rey and Shemiran and 731 were killed in riots in the provinces which constitutes 14% of the country. Most of the casualties were in central Tehran and the poorer southern areas. Of this number 32 "martyrs" belong to the 1963 riots who were killed in 19 different parts of the Iranian capital. All were male and from southern Tehran.
Despite this revelation all officially sanctioned books in Iran dealing with the history of the Islamic revolution write of "15,000 dead and wounded". Such wild figures have found its way in Western accounts.
Another myth is the number of those killed on Friday, 8th September 1978 in the infamous Jaleh Square massacre. On that day the Iranian government imposed martial law in Tehran after troops had fired at several thousand anti-government demonstrators in the capital. The opposition and Western journalists claimed that the massacre left between 95 and 3,000 dead, depending on widely varying estimates. Historians agree that the bloody incident was to be a crucial turning point in the revolution. Baghi refutes those numbers as "grossly inflated."
The figures published by Baghi speaks of 64 killed among them two females – one woman and a young girl. On the same day in other parts of the capital a total of 24 people died in clashes with martial law forces among them one female. Therefore, according to Baghi, the number of people "martyred" on Black Friday is 88 of which 64 were gunned down in Jaleh Square. These statistics are closer to the figures announced by Dr Ameli Tehrani (executed by the revolutionaries) who served in Prime Minister Sharif Emami's government. The Shah's officials repeatedly spoke of 86 people dead and 205 wounded in clashes.
But at the time nobody in Iran was prepared to believe the government version, says Baghi, himself an ardent revolutionary in those troubled days. Instead rumours turned into facts and made headlines further weakening the Shah's crumbling regime. Opposition leaders quoted figures as high as "tens of thousands" and agitators spread stories that soldiers had fired on the people from helicopters piloted by Israelis. Michel Focault, a leading French journalist, who covered the Jaleh Square wrote of "2,000 to 3,000 victims" and later increased the figures to "4,000 people killed" adding that the demonstrators had no fear of death.
The number of non-Muslims who died for the revolution was deemed by the Martyrs Foundation as "too insignificant" to be included in the list. Many of them were die-hard Marxist guerrillas who had fought running battles with the Shah's secret police known as Savak. In the 1970s the Shah's regime faced many threats from so-called Islamic-Marxist terrorists who carried out assassinations of top officials, kidnappings, bank thefts and bomb attacks on cinemas. Savak was given special powers to deal with this "terrorist" threat and appeared successfully ruthless in its "dirty war." Savak's crude brutality received a lot of criticism in the West. Amnesty International reported cases of illegal detention and torture.
But how many were killed? Baghi is methodical in the way he states numbers. Firstly, he claims that the total number of guerrillas killed between the 1971 Siahkal incident during which armed Marxists attacked a police station in a Caspian village and the February 1979 insurrection is 341.
The figure 341 is made up of 177 persons killed in shoot-outs with the Shah's security forces; 91 were executed for "anti-state activities"; 42 died under torture; 15 were arrested and "disappeared", 7 committed suicide rather than be captured, and 9 were shot while escaping. From among the guerrilla groups who died fighting the imperial regime the Marxist Fedayeen Khalq organisation suffered the highest losses. From the total figure of 341 killed, 172 were Fedayeens (50%); 73 Mujaheddin Khalq (21%); 38 fringe communists (11%); 30 Mujaheddin marxists before changing their ideology to Islamic (9%) and 28 Islamists (8%).
For completion sake, Baghi has added 5 other names to his long list. Four of them (Sadeq Amani, Reza Safar Herandi, Mohammad Bokharaie and Morteza Niknejad) were executed by firing squad after a military tribunal found them guilty of assassinating Prime Minister Mansour in 1965. The fifth name belonged to Reza Shams Abadi, a member of the Imperial Guard, who opened fire on the Shah as he came out of his limousine at the Marble Palace. The assassin was shot down by the king's bodyguards. By adding these five names to the 341 we get the figure of 346 non-demonstrators killed between 1963 and 1979.
In addition to the 32 demonstrators killed in the June 1963 pro-Khomeini riots two other persons were shot dead in the following weeks in an undisclosed part of Tehran. On 2nd November 1963 a certain Mohammad Ismail Rezaie was murdered in jail and on the same day Haj Mohammad Reza Teyb was shot by firing squad at the Heshmatiyeh army barracks.
The mysterious death of the famous wrestler Gholam Reza Takhti in 1967 was attributed to Savak but Baghi has established that Takhti committed suicide. Unfortunately, Baghi makes no mention of the Islamic philosopher Ali Shariati and the Imam's eldest son, Mustapha Khomeini. Both died of heart attacks in London and Najaf respectively. At the time of their deaths there were many rumours that they had been eliminated by Savak agents but subsequent evidence proves the opposite. Nevertheless, the negative effect on public opinion was tremendous and played a major role in eroding support for the Shah's regime.
In any case, by adding Takhti's name the total of those killed for underground action against the Shah's regime comes to 383 which added to the 2,781 "martyrs" would mean that 3,164 Iranians lost their lives in the revolution against the monarchy and not 60,000 as the Imam had stated. In time, other historians may take up the task of finding the truth about the countless people executed or eliminated during the brutal 24 years rule of the mullahs. But that will only be possible in a free Iran and the findings may prove to be a greater shock.
Rouzegar-Now
August issue " |
The reason I say take this report with a grain of salt is that first, it's written by Emad al-Din Baghi who was was/is a pro-Khomeini Islamist and second, because I know for a fact that there is no way 88 people were killed in Jaleh Square on that day. My friend's father was two streets down doing inventory for his electronics store and he heard less than 10 gunshots. Maybe those 88 were trampled over by the angry pro-Khomeini crowd and died but there is no way 88 people can be killed with 10 bullets.
For those who don't know, Emad al-Din Baghi sits in a prison today (I bet it has something to do with the book he wrote after the left Bonyad Shahid). |
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Eternal1
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Is the book available ar all ...What is it called. |
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Eternal1
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Fri Sep 10, 2004 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| reza wrote: | | over 3000 executions is despicable for the man who some claim to be iran's greatest leader. 1 execution is as bad as a thousand. |
Well, the problem is Reza, that beyond these chatrooms, and from what I see and here he is not recognised as Iran's greatest leader.
The fact that the western media made him out to be a monster....and even more unashamedly these were backed up by Amnesty International reports.
This means that 3000 instead of 100's of thousands does make a difference.
Not only does this reveal the absolute power of the media, but even NGOs who are supposed to have the welfare of people all over the world at the top of their agenda, are in actual fact, frauds. |
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reza
Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 466
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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he is not recognised as iran's greatest leader because not in a million years is mohammed reza shah ever going to be the greatest leader of iran!
_________________
"When on the battlefield if you have the sole intention of breaking into the enemy lines, you will manifest martial valour. Furthermore if you are slain in battle you should be resolved to having your corpse facing the enemy" - Yamamoto tsunetomo |
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Kid Einstein
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sat Sep 11, 2004 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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| reza wrote: | | he is not recognised as iran's greatest leader because not in a million years is mohammed reza shah ever going to be the greatest leader of iran! |
Reza, I'd really like to hear a better leader coming from you.
Korosh the great? Dr. Mossadegh? The first Pahlavi?
I think that Mohammad Reza Pahlavi was the greatest leader of Iran. Not only did he built up the modern Iran and boost up it's economy to the roof, but he raised the living standard (Although there still was poverty in certain areas, but then again, when didn't Iran have poverty? Or what country didn't have poverty in the 70's for that matter?) and equalized the rights to individuals in Iran.
He wasn't very democratic. Having two parties, both in his favor seems totalitarian. His SAVAK did ruin his reputation somewhat, although the western media did make it a whole lot more sour than what it really was.
However, he was fair. And as in fair, I mean fair to the religious minorities. My family's business in Iran was blooming, and the fact that we are mandean christians didn't sour down our business. We were rich, because we were smart enough to make an effective source for money, and that's the jewellry business.
I can't say the same about the mullahs regime. Not only did they put our glorious country in shambles, but I had a lot of my family killed in war and some by the regime. War and protests, but we had neither during the reign of the shah.
He was a stabilizing factor in the Middle East as well.
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Rest in peace, Omid... You will always be in my heart, dear cousin (1983-2003) |
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9karevatan
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 843
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 5:59 am Post subject: |
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mossadegh was so good!!!
hey azadeh...we all already know that khomeinis regime is bad and they kill ppl so when we are talking about shahs regime...stick to the shahs regime and dont keept refering to what happend after........
the shah DID execute ppl and took away the freedom go write against him or the government...and the army ppl u talked about and said they were trying to prevent khomeini from coming and save the ppl or whatever...thats just a big lie...they only did it because of the shahs orders to do so and because of the large amount of money they would get...
if all those few thousand ppl really did each assasinate someone then dont u think theres a problem here?
obviously the shah had no communication with the ppl directly
but u cant blame him for all the things going on
there was plenty of issues and arrests and executions without the shahs knowledge by his officials and many ppl in SAVAK
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iran iranam iraaanam
ke az to daram in jaanam
janam fadayat
mikhanam
payande baadi IRANam!!!!!!! |
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reza
Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 466
Location: England
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:32 am Post subject: |
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the shah was totally distant from his people, he executed enemies, censored the press and was overall a weak shadow of his father - parading around in a military uniform he did not earn.
He does no come close to cyrus or darius who were for the most part flawless leaders - not to mention the great kings of men that were the shapurs (1st and 2nd) - these kings were men, mohamed reza shah was a boy. if he was the greatest leader then we would not have to discuss the liberty of iran right now.
_________________
"When on the battlefield if you have the sole intention of breaking into the enemy lines, you will manifest martial valour. Furthermore if you are slain in battle you should be resolved to having your corpse facing the enemy" - Yamamoto tsunetomo |
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Kid Einstein
Joined: 03 Sep 2004
Posts: 30
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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I disagree with you reza. I think that I have justified why, so I think I've made myself clear on to that.
However, I do respect your opinion, oddly enough 
And that's partly as to that you have justified and motivated your opinion, thus you have handled your responsibility of free speech quite well, unlike many others who let crap drip out of their mouths and later say "Freedom of speech, man!". For that, you deserve respect, regardless if I agree or disagree with you.
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Rest in peace, Omid... You will always be in my heart, dear cousin (1983-2003) |
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Spenta
Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Posts: 1829
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| Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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The United States of America executes people (in fact the most in the world), many of whom are presumed innocent (occassionally proven so after the fact) and many for racist reasons based on claims that the majority are blacks. In fact the US has executed more people than the Shah. These executions have persisted, regardless of who has been president or which party was dominant. We can all agree that this is not good, but is it a reason to destroy a nation and its people through a bloody revolution? Of course not, why? Because the good in the US far outweighs the bad.
No regime is perfect, and every regime kills, ever heard about the French political assassinations? Based on the criteria of a regime that kills is bad, then every regime in the world today is bad and should undergo a bloody revolution, and none are good.
The Shah only killed around 3000 people during his entire reign, half of whom were killed in running street battles with the police and military, these were terrorists attacking banks and police stations. This figure is neither high, nor startling and it doesn't even make him a bloody dictator. With the Shah, its very simple, the good that he did far outweighted the bad. Unfortunately the people in Iran were not the same as the US, they never understood that the good outweighed the bad, they were uneducated, naive and heavily manipulated by foreign powers. Given that Iran started with a less than 5% literacy rate prior to the Pahlavi reign, the literacy rates after the Pahlavi's were miraculous but still not as high as developed countries understandably.
And if you want to bring up 'then why did the people overthrow the Shah', then why don't the people overthrow the Mullah$ now since by all accounts they hate the Mullah$ even more? The answer is, they overthrew the Shah because of foreign funding and support for it (millions in cash handed out to the revolutionary groups), and because the people could! When Bani Sadr called for it and half a million poured out against Khomeini, it went nowhere, why? Because Khomeini killed in the tens of thousands, brutally cracked down on dissent, and that ended the protest, clearly Khomeini was no Shah or else he too would have been overthrown!
Without foreign countries pouring millions in cash to groups, other countries furnishing training camps for guerrilla groups, a government that isn't massively brutal in its suppression, and western media pumping wall to wall 24/7 Shah denouncements and anti govt. propoganda while showering a revolutionary leader with the most press imaginable (the way they did with Khomeini) you obviously can't repeat '79!
And if anti Shahism was going to help or benefit Iran, then after 25 years of non-stop anti Shah propoganda from the Mullah$ and the usual anti Shah groups, Iran today would be a a paradise! Anti Shah rhetoric today on the part of some Republican groups, is designed to cover up their own participation in supporting Khomeini and the Islamic Republic. By continuing to blame the Shah for everything, and pumping more hatred for the Shah, they distract from people bringing up their responsibility for the revolution and the disastrous IRI regime.
The good that the Shah did far outweighed the bad. And the people have paid in blood and mcuh more for 25 years now as a result of failing to recognise or appreciate that back in 1979 and for being misled into an insane and destructive revolution set to fucking Pink Floyd  |
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Eternal1
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:28 am Post subject: |
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| 9karevatan wrote: | | ...the shah DID execute ppl and took away the freedom go write against him or the government... |
If only the Shah was a little more like his father,
he would have executed the likes of Khomeini, and the rest of the Mullahs some of whom are in power now, instead they were spared.
it would have saved the Iranians alot of future heartache.
Why he allowed BBC to broadcast Anti Shah propaganda I cannot understand.
The Shah was to soft and too human..thats the problem.
Lets not forget that if the Shah had been captured they would have literally ripped him apart. Look what happened to Gen Mehdi Rahimi.
and that was his reward for putting all his energy into making Iran a modern, influencial and powerful nation. |
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stefania
Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 4250
Location: Italy
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | (in fact the most in the world), |
China is the country where there has been more executions
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Referendum AFTER Regime Change
"I'm ready to die for you to be able to say your own opinions, even if i strongly disagree with you" (Voltaire) |
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patriot
Joined: 08 Mar 2004
Posts: 197
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 7:54 am Post subject: |
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Dear people intrested in Pahlavi dynasty,
please join Shahineazadi and share your view about Pahlavi there, because we have many non-Iranians already intrested in the last half century of Iran too and I want to save more informations in that group as much as possible in this case!
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shahineazadi
and please also share your dream and expects for Reza Shah II
thank you
javid shah
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I am Babak Khoramdin |
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Eternal1
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2004 10:15 am Post subject: |
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[quote="Eternal1"]Although this is not in response to any previous post, last night I happened to find, by luck, an article which mentioned a study carried out by one Emad al-Din Baghi.
If anyone could direct me to a more comprehensive source regarding this study, it would be most appreciated. [quote]
Are the books he published available at all....If so what are they called |
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