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SAY NO To Israeli Strikes on IRAN!
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REDALERT
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 12:58 pm    Post subject: SAY NO To Israeli Strikes on IRAN! Reply with quote

Red Alert:
("SAY NO to Israeli strikes on Iran!!!!")
In recent days several articles have surfaced regarding the possibility of Israeli missile strikes on Iranian Nuclear facilities. We know that many of you who receive these news updates are pro-Iranian freedom however we have noticed that many Americans who support Iranian freedom have unfortunately also voiced approval and support of Israeli military assaults on mullah's nuclear facilities. We must tell you that this is a very dangerous point of view and if you truly want to stand up for the United States and defend freedom both in the Middle East and here at home, you must be against any and all strikes on Iranian nuclear facilities!!

We will not bore you with the plethora of reasons why military strikes are counterproductive, but we must say that if there is one thing the Mullahs in Iran want, it is a military strike on these facilities. The United States already has the support of the Iranian people - a military attack on nuclear facilities could have the devastating consequences of turning many Iranians against the United States and stir up Iranian Nationalism (In support of a regime they currently despise) - Nationalism which is now very anti-Mullah and pro-US. In almost every possible scenario that can be thought through - any event that begins with military assaults on nuclear facilities is likely to lead to a situation in which the Mullahs are strengthened, increased regional war breaks out, thousands upon thousands of Iranians if not millions will be killed, and the prospects for peace and freedom will undoubtedly fall to the deepest depths and will be unattainable for many decades to come.

Please, if you support freedom in the Middle East and continue leadership and strength of the United States you must adamantly oppose Israeli Military strikes on nuclear faciltiies - because the simple fact remains that no matter how some pundits criticize and characterize the United States/freedom's current predicament, America and all people in the world who demand freedom are in fact in a good position and have the cards stacked in our favor - we mustn't waste this opportunity. Remember: Regime change is the objective - but there are countless ways to go about this other than through the most devastating and counterproductive method of nuclear assaults, which would result neither in regime-change nor anything the United States would be the least bit favorable of.
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stefania



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 4250
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, but i disagree on some points:

FIRST OF ALL, I BELIEVE THAT THESE ARE ONLY WARNINGS TO MAKE THE MULLAHS ACCEPT THE INSPECTIONS.

SECOND,THE REGIME WANTS TO NUKE ISRAEL..

THIRD,IRANIAN NATIONALISM DOES NOT MEAN THAT THE IRANIANS WILL STAND BY THE REGIME. NOT AT ALL.

MANY OF MY FRIENDS TOLD THIS.

REGIME MAY NUKE THE IRANIAN CITIES.

THE WORLD MUST STOP THEM

THE WORLD MUST DO WHATEVER TO DESTROY THESE FACILITIES
_________________
Referendum AFTER Regime Change

"I'm ready to die for you to be able to say your own opinions, even if i strongly disagree with you" (Voltaire)
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Rehime Change Now
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 4:49 pm    Post subject: Regime Change Yes, Bombing Nuclear nuclear plants No Reply with quote

Regime Change Yes, Bombing Nuclear nuclear plants No
stefania wrote:
Yes, but i disagree on some points:

FIRST OF ALL, I BELIEVE THAT THESE ARE ONLY WARNINGS TO MAKE THE MULLAHS ACCEPT THE INSPECTIONS.

On what basis do you believe these are just WARNINGS, when
we read the following information:

US: Israel may strike Iranian nuclear plants
By JPOST.COM STAFF
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1083998346048

Israel may be preparing to attack Iranian nuclear facilities within the year, according to US administration assessments reported on Army Radio Saturday morning.
Officials say that the attempt to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons has been discussed at various levels, as well as the effects such an attack would have on US military and political efforts in Iraq and in the Persian Gulf.
The UPI news service says President George Bush and Prime Minster Ariel Sharon recently discussed the subject at their most recent meeting. Following the meeting, Bush said it was inconceivable for the Middle East for Iran to acquire nuclear weapons.

stefania wrote:

THE WORLD MUST DO WHATEVER TO DESTROY THESE FACILITIES


No the world must help freedom-loving people of Iran to remove the regime ASAP.
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asher



Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Portland, Oregon

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry, RCN, nothing doing.

"We will not bore you with the plethora of reasons why military strikes are counterproductive" - well, you're going to have to bore us if you expect to get any support on this at all.

You speculate that an attack on nuclear facilities could rally Iranians around the regime. Maybe, but on the basis of what I've read right here on this board, I doubt it. What I have seen is that many Iranian freedom-lovers also oppose the regime's nuclear program.

Your post also confuses a strike against nuclear facilities with a nuclear attack. These are not the same thing and I think you know this. Iranians have the right to be concerned about possible nuclear contamination if a facility is attacked; these concerns should be addressed honestly and realistically.

"Regime change is the objective - but there are countless ways to go about this other than through the most devastating and counterproductive method of nuclear assaults, which would result neither in regime-change nor anything the United States would be the least bit favorable of." Regime change is certainly a goal that we all share. However, the US and its allies (Israel, but not Israel only) also have a real and legitimate concern about the IRI's possible acquisition of nuclear weapons.

To expect Americans to oppose Israel's right to defend itself is neither fair nor realistic. I think you would do better to demand that any action against IRI's nuclear facilities be accompanied by material support for regime change.

Let's see if we can find some common ground here, because this is an important issue.
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asher



Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Portland, Oregon

PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let me emphasize that I do understand that a surgical strike on IRI's nuclear facilities, by itself, would not weaken the regime and might provide a pretext for a widespread crackdown on dissent.

However, I think your best bet is to urge the West to think in terms of a broader assault on the regime, which would allow the Iranian people to overthrow the mullahs and begin taking charge of their own affairs.

Israeli and American interests may not coincide exactly with those of Iranian anti-regime forces, but I'm betting that we have enough in common to work together on this. Do we agree?
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Free Iran
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Until Iran is not despotic, Israel has a right to defend itself. Any casualties will be the responsibility of Iranian leaders, NOT Israel. Self-defence is not only a right but a moral imperative.
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torpedo
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:02 pm    Post subject: .. Reply with quote

The Iranian "leaders" are not the fucking leaders of the Iranian people.. The mullahs are a bunch of ape-**** monkeys who want Israel to destroy Iran.. all they want is to survive - that's it.... so to hell with the mullahs but why the hell should Israel attack Iranian nuclear sites - it will not bring about regime change.. jesus - think people - think..
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cybertooth!
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:06 pm    Post subject: same Reply with quote

Free Iran wrote:
Until Iran is not despotic, Israel has a right to defend itself. Any casualties will be the responsibility of Iranian leaders, NOT Israel. Self-defence is not only a right but a moral imperative.


Hey "free Iran" do you know what you're saying..? You're saying lets destroy or maybe kill a million Iranians just so Israel can "protect itself" .. that viewpoint is complete garbage. If the free world wants the mullahs out - they are out.. If the free world wants to annhilate the region - the region's annhilated.. figure out which side you stand on and then get back to me.
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lemonhead
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 10:07 pm    Post subject: can't Reply with quote

Strikes on Nuclear Faciltities = EXACTLY WHAT THE MULLAHS WANT

Unified American Policy of Regime Change = EXACTLY WHAT THE MULLAHS FEAR MOST!

Any questions?
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Contradictions
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:48 am    Post subject: Re: Regime Change Yes, Bombing Nuclear nuclear plants No Reply with quote

stefania wrote:

FIRST OF ALL, I BELIEVE THAT THESE ARE ONLY WARNINGS TO MAKE THE MULLAHS ACCEPT THE INSPECTIONS.

stefania wrote:

THE WORLD MUST DO WHATEVER TO DESTROY THESE FACILITIES


These two statements by Stefania are contradicting each other.
Do you agree Stefania ?
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Profits of War
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 1:36 am    Post subject: Profits of War by Ari Ben-Menashe Reply with quote

Profits of War: Inside the Secret U.S.-Israeli Arms Network by Ari Ben-Menashe



http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1879823012/qid=1084163637/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-8738900-5224906?v=glance&s=books

About the Author
Ari Ben-Menashe was born December 4, 1951, in Tehran, Iran, to an Iraqi-Jewish family. In 1966 he emigrated to Israel. From 1974 to 1977 he served in the Israel Defense Forces, in Signals intelligence. In the years 1977 to 1987 he was a civilian employee of the External Relations Department of IDF Military Intelligence. From 1987 to 1989, he was a special intelligence advisor to Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir. He speaks Arabic, Farsi, Hebrew, English, French, and Spanish.
Since 1990, he been a man without a country, dividing his time among England, the United States, and Australia. He cannot, for obvious reasons, return to Israel.


Editorial Reviews

From Book News, Inc.
Ben-Menashe, who worked for more than a dozen years in the inner circles of Israel's clandestine services, tells what actually happened during the 1980s: Israel and America prevented peace in the Middle East, the US supplied chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein, and Ronald Reagan and George Bush swapped arms with the Iranians for a delay in the release of the hostages to win the 1980 election. Published by Sheridan Square Press, Inc., 145 West 4th Street, New York, NY 10012- 1054. Annotation copyright Book News, Inc. Portland, Or.


Ingram
A man who worked in the innermost circles of Israel's clandestine services bares all about Robert Maxwell's greed, paying Iran to delay the release of the hostages, and the millions of dollars now sitting in a CIA and Israeli intelligence slush fund.


From the Publisher
"Ari Ben-Menashe is one of the most dangerous reegade agents ever to defect from Israeli intelligence. It is hard to think of anyone who has told us more about the secrets of the intelligence world than he. His charges have been corroborated." - Craig Unger, in the Village Voice
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IsraelForIran
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 4:30 am    Post subject: Give me a break people Reply with quote

Firstly, I want to make some things clear.
Israel IS NOT going to attack the Iranian facilities or any target in Iran with Nuclear weapons.
Secondly, Israel DOES NOT want to launch an attack against the Iranian nuclear facilities, BUT, IF THE IRANIAN NUCLEAR FACILITIES ARE READY, AND ARE ALMOST BEEN ACTIVATED, ISRAEL M-U-S-T ATTACK THEM BEFORE THEY ARE READY FOR ACTION, MEANING, BEFORE THEY CAN SPREAD A NUCLEAR RADIATION!!!!
OF COURSE, ALL THE SECURITY MEASURES WILL BE TAKEN, SO THE IRANIAN CITIZENS WON'T GET HURT.
YOU M-U-S-T UNDERSTAND, PASADARANS' NUCLEAR WEAPONS= THE END OF ISRAEL AND PRO-FREEDOM ACTIONS OF THE AMERICAN ADMINASTRATIONS. THEY WOULD BE ABLE TO ACTIVATE MORE TERRORISTS E-V-E-R-Y-W-H-E-R-E, FROM SAUDI TO EUROPE, FROM THE BALKANS TO IRAQ AND AFHANISTAN, AND N-O-O-N-E WOULD BE ABLE TO TOUCH THEM!!!!!
ISRAEL ATTACKED THE IRAQI NUCLEAR FACILITIES DURING 1981, BEFORE THESE FACILITIES WERE ACTIVATED, AND ALL THE WORLD DENOUNCED US AND PUT THE BLAME ON US FOR TRYING TO CAUSE A NUCLEAR WAR.
BUT JUST THINK, IN 1991, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF SADDAM HAD NUCLEAR WEAPONS???
WE SAVED KUWAIT'S ASS, UAE'S ASS, SAUDI'S ASS, AND OF COURSE, THEY ARE STILL HOSTILE AND ANTISEMIS.
AS FAR AS I CONCERN, AFTER THE AYATOLLAHS' FALLEN, IRAN CAN HAVE ALL THE GULF COUNTRIES FOR ITSELF+NUCLEAR WEAPONS.
NOW, WE MUST TRY TO BRING THE DEMOCRACY TO IRAN, BUT, IF THE IRANIAN PEOPLE DON'T TAKE OVER IRAN BEFORE THE NUCLEAR FACILITES ARE COMPLETLY READY, ISRAEL WON'T HAVE ANY OTHER CHOISE BUT PROTECTING ITSELF AND THE AMERICAN INTERESTS FROM A NUCLEAR HOLOCAUST,AND OF COURSE, WILL DO ANYTHING TO PREVENT EVEN THE SLIGHTEST CHANCE OF HITTING IRANIAN CIVILIANS!!!!
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stefania



Joined: 17 Jul 2003
Posts: 4250
Location: Italy

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree with you IFI

I AM FOR REGIME CHANGE MORE THAN SOME OTHERS HERE, BUT BE REALISTIC PLEASE..

SHOULD ISRAEL WAIT FOR THE MULLAHS'S FINAL STRIKE ON ISRAEL ??

TALKING WITH SOME FRIENDS FROM INSIDE IRAN, SOME TOLD ME : "IT'S RIGHT OF ISRAEL TO DEFEND ITSELF AGAINST THE MULLAHS.WE STAND BY ISRAEL."
_________________
Referendum AFTER Regime Change

"I'm ready to die for you to be able to say your own opinions, even if i strongly disagree with you" (Voltaire)
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Azadeh_55



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 467

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they are bombing the nuclear facilities before they are operational (like what they did to Saddam's nuclear reactors 20 years ago) then this would be one of the biggest gift any country could ever give the people of Iran. Because once the mullahs get their hand on nuclear weapons we know they will use it against another country (namely Israel because Rafsanjani has already said so numerous times). Iran will be greeted a nuclear bomb for sure when that happens. But if they bomb it before it becomes operational, then that's great because that means the mullahs won't get their hands on nukes.

But if they are planning to wait until the facilities are operational to attack, then that would create a gigantic nuclear explosion, and that is very bad for everybody. We have to do everything we can to stop them.

It sounds to me like all those articles are aimed at stopping the mullahs from getting nukes (the first senario), which is a good thing.
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asher



Joined: 03 Mar 2004
Posts: 305
Location: Portland, Oregon

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Azadeh,

Thanks for your response.

I understand your concern for the safety of the Iranian people. I believe you are mistaken about the "gigantic nuclear explosion". Unlike conventional explosives, which can easily be ignited (as for example when an ammo dump is hit by enemy fire), nuclear "fuel" will only explode under very precise conditions. A certain amount of uranium or plutonium - requiring a minimum quantity called "critical mass" - must be compressed into a small space for an explosion to occur. This is why atomic bombs are carefully designed to IMPLODE the nuclear fuel. I think it is highly improbable that such an event could occur by accident, e.g. in the course of a pre-emptive bombing, even if a sufficient quantity of weapons-grade fuel were present.

So I think the fear of a nuclear explosion from such a strike is unfounded.

As I've said, there is reason to be concerned about radioactive contamination. We all know how little the mullahs care for the lives of their own people, particularly since the Bam tragedy, so obviously we cannot trust the regime to evacuate the affected region in the event that contamination does become an issue. As you rightly point out, the best option is to take out the facilities before there is radioactive material to worry about.

Of course it will make no strategic sense to simply "wound the beast", so this pre-emptive strike would have to be accompanied by decisive measures to effect regime change. I am confident that America will do this: the IRI's thugs are killing our people in Iraq right now, so it only makes sense to take the battle to the enemy. Now that we already have a military presence in Iraq, it should not be a problem to train, arm, and equip Iranian freedom fighters to take the lead in their own liberation. I am confident that this is probably happening already.

The most sensible option for the West - even in terms of pure self-interest - is to eliminate the regime's nuclear weapons program ... and the regime.

And we must do it quickly.
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