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Regime anti-riot forces start attacking - LATEST NEWS
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redemption



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
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Location: California

PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Antijihad wrote:
Quote:



the discrimination, ignorance and absolute lack of tolerance or informed opinion i am reading here disturbs me.

islam is a peaceful and beautiful religion, as you will find if you study it. but as with all religions, it can be manipulated by the mullahs for their own motivations.

please keep in mind that the situation in iran as with much of the middle east is a terrible misrepresentation of the foundations of islam and should not be used as a measure by which the religion should be judged.


And what's wrong with discriminating against a "religion" which commands it's followers to kill the kaafir?
And how can you expect me to tolerate the intolerable?
Islam is NOT a peaceful and beautiful religion. YOU are the ignorant one. Don't you have eyes and ears? Can you not see the effect Islam is having on the world?

You, maggot, are an apologist for this Islamic death cult. But, "inshallah", you are a dying breed. DEATH TO ISLAM. FREEDOM FOR MUSLIMS.


Can you spare us the comments that bash an entire religion? I know many great muslims who are adamantly against the fanatic regimes in the Middle East.. come on now..
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redemption



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is no doubt strong opposition will remain in Iran until the 2nd revolution has succeeded..
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Saman



Joined: 14 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I for one support antijihads opinion on islam.
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redemption



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saman wrote:
I for one support antijihads opinion on islam.


Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion though we shouldn't bash mulsims because they are muslim.. what good does this do.. lets just go ahead and bash the fanatics.. like khamenei babies.
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Saman



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't support bashing muslims, I support bashing Islam.
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RANT



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I firmly believe that the war on terror, is one of Islamic fundamentalists vs. civilization.

I don't care for those, whoever, who judge individual Muslims negatively.
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toaster
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe the "war on terror" is less about religion and fundamentalism than it is about economics. Look at countries where al Qaeda and connected groups have thrived - Sudan, Afghanistan, Indonesia... All struggling economies with high poverty and unemployment rates. People need more than freedom - they need opportunities. This is the only way to fight terror.

I've been following this board since yesterday, and thank you for getting this news out. I hope these protests are only the start of a bigger revolution.

متشكرام!
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RANT



Joined: 16 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

toaster wrote:
I believe the "war on terror" is less about religion and fundamentalism than it is about economics. Look at countries where al Qaeda and connected groups have thrived - Sudan, Afghanistan, Indonesia... All struggling economies with high poverty and unemployment rates. People need more than freedom - they need opportunities. This is the only way to fight terror.

I've been following this board since yesterday, and thank you for getting this news out. I hope these protests are only the start of a bigger revolution.

متشكرام!


Actually, I agree with you Toaster. It is the dire economic circumstances that make young minds susceptible to the message of Islamic fundamentalists.

Thomas Sowell produced an excellent article on this today: http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/sowell1.asp

I also hope for a change in Iran. It will be good for us in the States. It will be even better for the Iranian people!
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Robert McGee
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:42 pm    Post subject: Faster, faster, Zoroaster! Reply with quote

As an American, I am in awe of these heroic anti-mullah demonstrators in Iran. What stirs my heart the most is that these revolutionaries -- for I think that's what they will become, very soon -- clearly understand the vital importance of state secularism, and do not seek simply to install a "softer" theocracy.

I spent my college years at the University of Virginia, a school established by Mr. Thomas Jefferson, who once wrote: "I have sworn eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." In my college days, and up until a couple years ago, even for months after September 11, I would have told any who asked that Islam was essentially similar to the other "Abrahamic faiths," Judaism and Christianity -- a mixture of good and bad, of wisdom and superstition, reflecting man's noblest instincts as well as his basest prejudices. Then I finally discovered the writings of ex-Muslims like Ibn Warraq, and began to read the Quran for myself -- and I felt like the victim of a scam.
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Antijihad
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some points for the less knowledgable:
Muslim extremism is caused by the Quran, Hadiths and "firebrand" khutbahs in mosques.
Most despotic regimes in the ME actually crack down on rampant Islamism, rather than support it.

A Muslim is someone who tries his best to live life according to the Quran and Sunnah. ie they believe that I should be killed for being an "unbeliever".
A Muslim is not someone who agrees with some aspects of his Islamic religion but not with others.
A Muslim is not someone who respects democracy, individual freedom, womens' rights, atheists, Hindus, Zoroastrians or Pagans. These people are called munafiq (hypocrite) or non-believers.

Therefore, Islam must die and Muslims must be freed from this tyranny. If they don't want to be freed and instead want to continue striving for the death or enslavement of all freedom-loving people then I would suggest they are either fenced off without access to WMD, any weapons, communications, etc, or they are killed. Otherwise this nightmare will never ever end, and people like me will have to accept as a condition of my existence that at any moment I might be killed in a bomb attack/ biochem release/ shooting attack. I don't see why I should have to endure that, just for being a law abiding citizen. All I want to do is go about my business in safety and peace. I have no problem with Hindus, Jews, Christians or Pagans because they do not want to harm me. It is only the Muslims who want to harm me.
So, DEATH TO ISLAM. FREEDOM (OR DEATH) FOR MUSLIMS (IT'S THEIR CHOICE).
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American Visitor



Joined: 19 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree we should try to respect other people's religions.

However, I have trouble with Islam as it is practiced by a very large percentage of the followers. It seems to be more a political party than a private worship of God. I have talked to Muslims who are regular people. They tell me they can't love people of other religions, must reinstate slavery and female sex slaves, kill apostates etc. because Allah tells them to. I believe Islam is commanded to kill polythiests such as Hindus and make Christians and Jews completely second class citizens. They also want to overthrow the Western democracies and replace them with Islamic dictatorships.

So how are we supposed to react to these people? I certainly don't want my country to be like Iran or Saudi Arabia.
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toaster



Joined: 17 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Antijihad wrote:
So, DEATH TO ISLAM. FREEDOM (OR DEATH) FOR MUSLIMS (IT'S THEIR CHOICE).
This is exactly the sort of hate speech and extremism that the "war on terror" should be fighting.

Any religion or worldview, when taken to an extreme fundamentalist viewpoint, can be dangerous. Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism - all are capable of the same types of terrorist acts we see from fundamentalist Islam - Christians murdering abortion doctors, Hindus massacring Muslims in Gujurat, and systematic racism and bigotry against Palestinans in Israel are just a few examples. When we chant "DEATH TO ISLAM," we are guilty of the same intolerance we claim to stand against.

I'm not going to try and debate over Quranic text - I am not yet fluent in Arabic and I don't want to rely on translations. But it is possible to find plenty of passages in the Bible that could be interpreted to support intolerance and hatred of other religions. The key is the interpretation.
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Anthony



Joined: 17 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a question to all those who see Islam as a peaceful religion. For the sake of argument, pretend I am Salman Rushdie. How have you shown to me that Islam is a peaceful religion?

American Visitor,
We should ~not~ "try to respect other people's religions." We should and must respect other people's right to hold their religious beliefs, but trying to respect their beliefs is a different thing altogether. Some religious beliefs are patently stupid, destructive, or both.
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9karevatan



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i beleive only in the quran and i am a submitter
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toaster



Joined: 17 Mar 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anthony wrote:
I have a question to all those who see Islam as a peaceful religion. For the sake of argument, pretend I am Salman Rushdie. How have you shown to me that Islam is a peaceful religion?
This is not a valid argument. You're using the preachings of a fanatic in the religion's leadership to represent the religion as a whole. By the same logic, you can argue that Catholicism promotes sexual molestation of young children.
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