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PostPosted: Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:53 pm    Post subject: TOTAL DISCONNECT OF THE AMERICAN MIND FROM REALITY IN IRAN Reply with quote


(Please distribute)

Shown in blue below is the comment of a worthy but frustrated American on a website with 250,000 members, indicating how far off the American ability to think in terms of reality is when referencing Iran as the venue.

This applies equally to much of the Administration, the Intelligence Agencies, much of the Military (specially retired talking heads advisors and TV pundits) and sadly so, the State Department.

Alan's response follows the blue comment:
Frustrated American wrote:


"I feel for the people. But the reality is they are sitting on a powder keg with the lunatics running the asylum.I don't. An unstated corrallery of the Bush Doctrine is "citizens: you are responsible for your own country" This is an assertion of radical democracy. No more victim nations.

If a nation of millions allows a handful to rule, for decades, without any significant opposition they have de-facto made the decision to support those tyrants. Please don't come crying to us (though they will) when we are forced to bomb you because of the action of those rulers.

I will respect the Iranians when they rise up, violently, to depose the lunatics. Anything less is cowardice and unworthy of a supposedly great people.

At least some Nazi's tried to assassinate Hitler. Many others resisted. All I see from the Iranians are protests, which sometimes go violent. This is silly.

The time is long past to be organizing military resistance, buying guns, forming cells, and carrying out targeted assassinations of Mullahs.

This is what would certainly have happened in the USA decades ago were some sick sect of crazed religious fanatics attempt to impose dictatorship on the American people.

So no, I won't feel sorry for those who die. They have literally brought this upon themselves".


Alan Peters wrote:

Easy to stand in your shoes or sit in the safety of your chair and accuse a populace of cowardice because they no longer want to face an Arab mercenary force - the Basiji - newly equipped with $253 MILLION of weaponry and crowd control and riot suppression equipment AND open season to kill anyone they want to in the streets - without fear of punishment.

Their sole job - presently, is to repress any street location or university demonstrations and use whatever means they want. A new task envisaged for them will be the running of elections and screening of candidates. If it was bad and discriminatory before, the "fix" is in for the ardent followers of Hojatieh to win everything.

They have been given arrest authority BUT they take those arrested to their own sites and do with them as they please. And their pleasure is inevitably sadistic to the extreme.

No law, no oversight, no restrictions and nowhere for anyone to go and complain.

Within those parameters, would you DARE go into the streets of your own neighborhod to even shop for groceries let alone oppose anything or anyone? Say if the local gangs had the same mission in mind and the same immunity from punishment or retribution?

Be real, good friend.

Specially when the social weave of Iranian society - after over a quarter of a century of the Mullahs - has been weakened by corruption essential for survival.

Where married women take on several lovers to pay their daily life's needs and to feed their husbands and children.

Where prostitution is almost an unavoidable part of life for women. In best case scenarios as a beaten and degraded wife of some man - often with multiple wives. Who at any moment can find herself thrown into the street to join the countless homeless women on the streets of cities, who failed to please their husbands enough and thus become indigents with no way to earn a living

Where drugs are sold more easily than music CDs.

Where more than 400,000 starving children roam the streets of Tehran and will do anything to survive. Peddling themselves or others - snitching on others to the authorities for a meager reward - to survive another day.

Compared to Iran's current social turmoil and dislocation, the Jews almost "had it good" under Hitler - not much of an exaggeration since the Bassiji kill just as readily or more so than the Nazi SS. The streets and private homes are the concentration camps, not just the multitude of formal prisons.

They have been killed and maimed with tire irons by Bassijis for appearing close to a small crowd in the streets, even if not participants. What energy is left in these battered, sucked dry souls to do what you ask? To avoid your accusation of cowardice.

Put your thoughts into Islamic Iranian context not some philosophical, impossible parameters of what should have, could have, might have been done in an American scenario.

Alan Peters,
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Cyrus,

Unfortunately the "disconect" is not limited to the minds of my countrymen....and I urge any activistchat member viewing this post to go to this extremely large forum (Post Global) with millions of readers world-wide, and tell folks what is what....by posting additional commentary and/or contributing an op-ed.

Lot of mullah's men posting drivel....and "to sin by silence"...etc etc etc....

Hope you appreciate the subtle reasoning in the conclusion of my response....

Washington Post - PostGlobal

Iran Needs Nuclear Weapons


Paris, France - Two years ago I did not want Iran to produce nuclear energy for electricity, let alone for its military. Today I've changed my mind. Iran needs nuclear weapons to defend itself.

Back in 2004, I had environmental and political worries about nuclear energy. Low safety standards in Iran, evidenced for example in the extremely high incidences of road accidents, would make anyone nervous about the possibility of another Chernobyl occurring in Iran. Politically, I argued that possessing nuclear weapons would embolden the new government of Iran, which was already exhibiting an unimpressive record on democracy and human rights.

But the events of the past two years -- most notably with what's happening in Iraq, along with last year's presidential election and other unfortunate events in the region -- has left no doubt in my mind, and in the minds of lots of secular Iranians, that the U.S. is behaving more and more like a reckless imperial force in search of new sources of energy and new markets to expand to economically. Therefore, even if Iran becomes the most peaceful, secular and progressive, yet still independent state on the planet, the U.S. would be unable to tolerate it. The U.S. would seek new excuses to topple Iran's government and install their favorite instead.

For this reason, I believe Iran needs to produce nuclear weapons as a defensive mechanism, to deter the U.S. today and the ever-expanding and equally energy-hungry China tomorrow.

Moreover, a nuclear Pakistan has always been a threat to Iran and a source of instability. Radical Wahabi and anti-Shia groups such as Sepah-e Sahabeh have murdered Iranian citizens or diplomats in the past twenty years. They helped create the Taliban, which almost got into war in Iran in late in late 90s.

But making nuclear weapons even for totally defensive purposes is not easy now. Iran could only get away with it by stopping enrichment now, voluntarily normalizing relations with Israel and the U.S., and withdrawing from the NPT. Then it could start making the weapons -- secretly or maybe even publicly. It's only then that the world would tolerate a nuclear Iran.

By Hossein Derakhshan | August 23, 2006; 5:41 PM ET


(Author's bio)

Hossein Derakhshan


Iranian-born Hossein "Hoder" Derakhshan is a blogger, journalist, and internet activist. Since 2001, he has been based out of Toronto, Canada, running his award-winning weblog, Editor: Myself, which has been among the most influential blogs in the Persian language.


Oppie's response:

Dorood "Hoder",

Please allow this American Bhuddist "infidel" who's granddad helped build the very first atomic bomb clue you in to why the premis of several aspects of your thinking two years ago is still valid, and why various premis behind statements made in the above article are badly in need of reexamination, from a logical and non-emotional mindset.

1. The environmental aspects of nuclear energy:

Traffic patterns have no bering on the geographical probability of a major earthquake occuring in Iran. Lack of transparent environmental and geological study including public imput on these issues alone should give any rational Iranian pause for thought as to the logical environmental concequences of the future start-up of Bushir (or any other proposed facility) may ultimately become manifest in the region. And this is not simply an Iranian issue, many Gulf nations have expressed exactly this concern, officially.

I just list one environmental aspect here, as my time is limited, but there are many others that need to be factored in.

2. "Political" considerations as you call them, boil down to a question of regime intent, both in regards towards nations in the region, and the international community. As well as its intent towards the people of Iran.
Intent can be redily assesesed in word and deed of the regime itself over a long period of time, and over multiple presidencies, of which the latest selected is on record of stated intent to wipe nations off the map, including the USA.
You talk of the situation in Iraq, but not of the regime's intent to destabilize a soverign government that exists there today, which with more than enough evidence shows the non-peaceful intent of the regime toward its neigbors, via proxi groups it supports with arms and propaganda. (I'll be kind to you here and simply make the initial assesment that you are also a victim of "spin").

If anything, the abysmal human rights practices of the regime are worse that they've ever been in the entire 27 year history of the Islamic Republic of Iran.
By way of proof from their own lips, the regime just recently stated that they will kill each and every political prisoner now in custody, should the UN Sec. Council impose sanctions over the nuclear issue.

Again, I don't have time to write a hundred pages covering all the human rights aspects that remain valid premis to your original thinking, but I would point out that the people of Iran have no say in nuclear matters at present, and that is in itself a violation of their civil liberties, being slaves to the intent of the regime.

A regime which by the way, has over the last two years, recruited by public advertizment in a regime-run publication, some 52,000 Martyrs willing to blow themselves up in suicide opperations against US and allied government's interests in the region, including Iraq and other Gulf nations.
A regime who's selected president has gone on record as saying that Martyrdom is the highest order of individual achievment, and who's Iranian Hizbollai supporters of the 12th imman have declared EVERY Iranian to be potential martyrs of the revolution.

3. Nuclear weapons assesment:

I'm probably among a dozen or so people in the world still living who has held a piece of "trinitite" in my hands. This is the fused sand from the first atomic explosion, bubbled green glass, encased in leaded crystal, given to the department heads and leading scientists at Los Alamos at the end of WW2, including my granddad. The rest has been bulldozed underground at the Trinity test site in White Sands. It is the most concrete example I can show any one of the risk of nuclear war, or the results of it.
Any leader holding this potential future in hand will have something to remember, and think about.

It took America just about 27 months, from 1942-45 to build an industry from scratch, based on designs from scratch, building a city from scratch to build a bomb from scratch, with only theories to go on, in the middle of the largest and most costly war in history. Yet we did this and ended that war that had cost 50 million lives up to that point with the weapon that no one knew would even work at the time it was being produced.

Everyone who worked on the first bomb, being as uncivilized a weapon as it is, believed it would cause mankind to forever choose peace instead of war after it ended WW2. Unfortunately, that direction was not taken, at the expense of the environment, and to the continued threat to all life on this planet.

I stress here the biggest "what if?" is what we might have accomplished as the Human species had we chosen to live in peace, instead of fear after WW2.

Anyone who has witnessed the birth of one's child can tell you that yes indeed you create your own reality, the question is what do we wish to create for ourselves as reality on this planet, now and for our children's, and their children's future? Not just in this country, but the world as a whole, as an international vision.
Inherently, change is viewed with suspicion, as a threat to culture and ways of tradition and ethical belief systems. As it applies to developing countries in this nuclear age, the post-cold war aftermath presents a vast paradox that present no easy solutions, and has culminated in the reality of the war on terrorism as it exists today.

We in America share a concept, united we stand, divided we fall, 9/11 has forced the world to grasp this concept. Ready or not, globalization is at hand, a global response to chaos in the form of potential nuclear terrorism.

So it is now out of a sense of duty to my grandfather's memory I hereby state this for the record, knowing that I am of sound mind, and good heart, and do my best to remain objective. Objectivity can be hard to come by where it concerns family, or politics, as we are all human beings, and of a species prone to emotions, at the expense of logic.

If there is one thing about people that's a given, it's that they can only change themselves. You can try to understand them, change their circumstances, try to point the roads to peace, but in the end, they must want it for themselves, knowing what the alternatives are.

There is a situation soon to be pressed regarding Iran, over multiple issues outstanding, both acute and systemic, with far reaching ramifications for non-proliferation, counter-terrorism, human rights, and the general stability of the Mideast.

The IRI is fast pushing the free world to another alternative that could be far worse, if the IRI does produce a nuclear weapon before the people decide their own fate, and remove the threat both to them and the international community.

Now I hear a fair amount of talk that the US is just using this as an excuse to promote "regime change". But the reality is if the regime isn't changed soon, the mullahs who are willing to martyr 10 million recruits (as also noted in IRI statements), and is on record of having an agenda of obliterating nations off the map, would certainly be willing to use such a weapon on their own people to make it look for all intents and purposes as if the Israeli's or the US had just attacked them, thereby creating the needed justification for holy war (or un-holy war depending on one's mindset), and thereby create the apocalyptic conditions of prophesy to hasten the mahdi's return.

Now Iran has had at least 18 years, lots of help from other nations, black market smugglers, and their scientists have had proven designs to work with, and in all probability now has in its possesion, a handful of nuclear devices smuggled in after being bought on the black market.

My conclusion is this,... and I hope you will all consider very carefully what you wish for, because one of the basic flawed premis in modern political mythology is that having a nuclear weapon buys national security.

Regardless of flaws in US policy that one may perceive, the risk the Islamic Republic poses to the Iranian people far outweighs by orders of magnitude, the risk the US government poses to you.

Why is that?

Because for the last 60 years since we dropped 2 atomic bombs to end a war that took over 50 million lives, my government has done everything in its power to make sure not another one gets dropped....by anyone.

However, given the Iranian government's intent and actions, it is apparent to many globally that in order to maintain global peace and security, the current government of Iran must go....either quietly into the night, voluntarily returning to their mosques never to participate in politics again. Or by removal at the hands of the people themselves and/or be removed by the will of nations and force of arms.

At present, the US government has still a policy of "behavior change" in effect, has made a generous offer to resolve the "nuclear problem" diplomaticly in concurrance with other nations and a UN resolution mandating compliamce with international norms.

The regime has turned it down, and is apparently unwilling to be a functional member of the family of nations.

Don't blame the US for the choices the regime makes, nor the results that the consequences will ultimately manifest.

Those of the Muslim faith, as well as those Iranians who read this have my great sympathy for the choice that you must now make as individuals, to preserve your nation and the umma itself from those who lead a great nation and people over oblivion's cliff.

"Hoder" I trust you will also reflect on what has been written here with utmost sincerity.

ba sepaas....

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am more than aware of a certain "disconnect" with some of my fellow Americans, as the following excerpts will illustrate...

Traditionally, my home town of SantaFe is called "The city different" but one could just as well call it the "city dysfunctional"

I would appreciate it very much if folks here could educate a few "useless idiots" if you have a little time to spare, and you're inclined to do so after reading the following.

I think folks may benefit from hearing it from Iranians directly.


By Steve van Dresser (Submitted: 09/02/2006 7:52 pm) ( Report this comment )
Eric, you seem to be listening to the same people talking about Iran that the Bush administration listened to about Iraq -- a group of disaffected exiles who promised rose petal strewn path for our conquering heroes.

By Steve van Dresser (Submitted: 09/02/2006 12:13 pm) ( Report this comment )
Eric, you seem to believe that the people of Iran somehow want to have our support and guidance. You think that our actions are facilitating the building of democratic institutions around the world? How silly.

Just after Iran had chosen a moderate government, we showed the world exactly what we think about autonomy and self-determination by invading Iraq........

By Dan Johnson (Submitted: 09/01/2006 7:11 pm) ( Report this comment )
Right Eric, whatever you say--now go back to watching your Last Samurai DVD for the umpteenth time. The fact is that the U.S. is the country that has threatened to use nukes against Iran--not the other way around.......

By Dan Johnson (Submitted: 08/27/2006 6:46 pm) ( Report this comment )
Greg, Funny you should mention 100 years: Which of the following, the U.S., Israel, or Iran has attacked and invaded another country in the last 100 years? But somehow there are those that insist (like those who lead us into the Iraq debacle) that Iran is somehow an immediate threat that requires military action. If the U.S. regime doesn't like the current Iranian regime, then it is the height of hypocrisy: the U.S. got exactly the regime it wanted in Iran. Bush had more than enough diplomatic opportunities--as well as now--with the democratically elected (remember democracy) Khatami government to create peaceful relations with Iran. The neo-cons wanted someone like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to come to power in Iran so they could continue their quest for control over Iran's oil. Well, I stand for democracy, and I hope those who read this 100 years from now won't laugh at my beliefs. Iran poses no threat to its neighbors--something I can't say about cluster-bomb using (i.e., war crimes) Israel. Kate, do you have something to post on the topic of this thread? I'd be interested to read your views regarding Iran threat potential to its neighbors.

Part of one of my responses:

Illusions Dan, such as thinking (from another thread) "The U.S. is just going to drive Iran into stronger military ties with the Chinese. Wait till next year when Iran opens up an independent oil/gas bourse in petroEuros; the U.S. already invaded Iraq, in part, for its temerity to undermine the dollar by requiring payment for oil in Euros, and I believe this is the real factor driving the completely reckless calls for attacks on Iran. Wouldn't the malevolent, expat Iranian monarchist love to set up another tyrannical regime beholden to the U.S. I could easily see the Iranians inviting the Chinese to establish military bases in Iran to prevent the U.S. from trying to control its oil spigot like it did under the brutal Shah. This would be very advantageous, strategically for the Chinese, as it would guarantee an oil supply w/o going through U.S.-controlled puppets."

Dan you have this illusion running about in your mind that the US is the root cause of all the ills in the world aparently, that it sees all, knows all, and has the ability to control all in an imperialistic, hegemonic quest for other nation's resources....which if that were the case...why the hell would we be dicking around trying to promote democracy throughout the world? Hell, man think! Why bother to give Kuwait back to the Kuwaities after Gulf war 1....hell if the US is as corrupt as you think it is to kill its own citizens on 9/11 to start the "war on terror" (as noted in other posts on that topic) Why would we have waited so long eh? A few Nuetron Bombs later (which we chose not to develop) we could have simply walked in and taken over the entire oil infrastructure intact, through out the Mideast at a time of our choosing....at any point in time....and then said to China and Russia and the EU...."Free oil boys! Come and get it, there's enough for all of us!".....Why Dan?

Fact is Dan, what the US is most interested in seeing is responsible nations in good standing with each other, being responsible to their people, and responsible trading partners within the family of nations, not just with us...it's not about US...it's about finally getting about humanity's business of taking care of itself and the planet we live on....FDR's four freedoms being the basis....creating the UN charter, the Universal Declaration of human rights....and age old concepts of Democracy and freedom on a copy of a 2500 year old Persian clay scroll Cyrus the Great wrote the first delaration of human rights on....on permanent display at UN headquarters...NYC. for inspiration.


"Wouldn't the malevolent, expat Iranian monarchist love to set up another tyrannical regime beholden to the U.S."

Again with the false premises.....please educate yourself .....


One more thing: Your "..insignificant posts on some backwater news site. " as you call them do a great disservice to a great many people, including those in my home town here who run this site....and you never know who reads these things....do you? Nothing personal Dan, but just what is your social malfunction? Curious minds would like to know.....

By Dan Johnson (Submitted: 09/01/2006 12:10 am) ( Report this comment )
"When Battleships give way to Sailboats, how does the world realize its true self?"
By throwing Cyrus The Wanker worshippers overboard and opening up a beer?
-----------------------end excerpts---------

Well folks, I guess it's up to you whether to register on site and respond.
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