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ATTENTION CYRUS and ALL OTHER ACTIVISTS!!!!
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having a "democratic" conspiracy for something illegal as intefering with national territory of a country and to promote ilegal claims is not a democratic right!
-------------------

It is indeed a democratic right to voice opinion, whether you feel otherwise or not...there's nothing illegal about expressing opinion.

You've not given anyone any proof that AEI is promoting separatism...whether some panelists do or not.

fact is , you can ignore what I say as you please...I don't have time or patience anymore to keep explaining why you have no common sense understanding of how you are denying folks the right to speak their mind.

So let them have their say, and then deal with it if it offends you, or their ideas present a situation that is not in accordance with stated US policy, or the best interest of Iran in general.

I am on your side as far as "separatism" as an issue is concerned, but I must act in accordance with some very basic ethical democratic standards which you apparently would fail to abide by.

Therefore since you deny others the right to have their say, encoraging and demanding others do the same, insulting them if they do not agree with your stance....I don't care one way or another if we have any further discussion at all.

As far as I'm concerned this matter is closed, until I see the transcript of this AEI meeting.
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Liberty Now !



Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 521

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:11 pm    Post subject: Shiet- Sunni Wars: the old british trick Reply with quote

OLD BRITISH POLICY OF ' DIVIDE & CONQURE ' AT WORK !


BOTH THE SEPARATIST IDEOLOGY AND SHIET - SUNNI WARS HAVE A BRITISH STAMP ON THEM.



MICHAEL LEDEEN:

http://www.nationalreview.com/ledeen/ledeen200510180824.asp

Quote:
Tuesday, October 18, 2005

It Sounds Like Iranian Disinformation

October 18, 2005
National Review Online
Michael Ledeen



Z Squared
Making sense of the Zawahiri-Zarqawi letter.

So what was all that stuff about the Shiites? I was asking my late friend, James Jesus Angleton, once upon a time the head of counterintelligence for the CIA, about the now-famous letter from Ayman Zawahiri to Abu Musab Zarqawi captured somehow by somebody and posted on the website of the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. We were communicating, as usual, through my antique ouija board, and for once the connection was crystal clear.

JJA: Good question, that. Thereís an unbelievable amount of verbiage devoted to the Shiites by Zawahiri, picking up on Zarqawiís proclamation of all-out war against the Shiites in Iraq some time ago. He goes on for several pages, denouncing the Shiite doctrineĖeven to the point of calling them "Twelver Shiites," after the messianic descendant of the Prophet ó the 12th Imam ó who is said to have disappeared, pending his triumphal return at the end of time. He calls them all kinds of names...

ML: Yes, and he blames them for supporting the liberation of Afghanistan, did you catch that? He says that "Rafsanjani himself confessed to it."

JJA: And how. Thatís one of the oddest features of the whole letter. What in the world is Rafsanjani doing there? Especially because Zawahiri segues smoothly from his vicious attack against the Shiites to a call to abandon all attacks against them.

ML: Thatís my point exactly. First he calls them every name in the book. Then he says all "people of discernment and knowledge among Muslims" know that Shiites have always cooperated with "the enemies of Islam." He calls the conflict between any true Muslim state and the Shiites "a matter that will happen sooner or later. This is the judgment of history."

JJA: Right. And then, without taking a deep breath, he says "the majority of Muslims donít comprehend this and possibly could not even imagine it," and therefore the average Muslim man on the street doesnít understand why Zarqawi is attacking the Shiites. Not only that, but itís impossible to explain it to them. They canít possibly get it.

ML: Talk about a dim view of the Muslim masses!

JJA: Yeah, theyíre all village idiots, in Zarkawiís eyes.

ML: But I always thought that the Sunnis were totally indoctrinated to hate the Shiites.

JJA: Me too. So this is baffling. Zawahiri tosses in another peculiar line: "even if we attack the Shia out of necessity, then why do you announce this matter and make it public, which compels the Iranians to take counter measures?"

ML: Whatís the deal with that? The papers have been full of stories about all the help the Iranians are giving to the Sunni insurgents, even in the south, where Iran has lots of leverage.

JJA: Indeed. And Zawahiri also "reminds" Zarqawi that "we have more than one hundred prisonersĖmany of whom are from the leadership who are wanted in their countries ó in the custody of the Iranians."

ML: Odd, isnít it?

JJA: Iíll say itís odd. It reads like Iranian disinformation. Zawahiri takes great pains to blame Zarqawi for Iranian meddling in Iraq (reacting to attacks on Shiites), and reinforces the old story about Iran holding al Qaeda "prisoners." Iíve never believed that.

ML: In fact, the 9/11 Commission, for all its faults, showed a long-standing alliance between the mullahs and al Qaeda, years before 9/11.

JJA: Yes, and including obvious assistance from Iran to several of the terrorists when they traveled to America to do the evil deed.

ML: So why should anyone think that Iran is being mean to them now?

JJA: Because the Iranians want us to believe it. Most of the stuff Iíve seen suggests that Zawahiri himself is in Iran, and has been there ever since Afghanistan, as has bin Ladenís son ó and who knows about bin Laden himself?

ML: So you think the letter is just Iranian disinformation?

JJA: No, I donít think itís that simple. I think itís like a CIA assessment. I think itís groupthink. Letter-by-committee. Lots of it sounds right to me, especially that stuff about using the media, although even there, I have my doubts.

ML: The single best line of the whole document is when Zawahiri says "we are in a battle, and...more than half of this battle is taking place in the battlefield of the media." When I read that, I wondered if one of our own spooks hadnít written it.

JJA: Well, that could also be. Itís certainly true, God knows. But itís odd that he should say it, if you see what I mean.

ML: Well, he says it in the context of his criticism of the beheadings. "You shouldnít be deceived by the praise of some of the zealous young men and their description of you as the Sheikh of the Slaughterers etc."

JJA: But the whole point of the beheadings is to recruit zealous young men. Thatís been obvious for years. Videos of beheadings have been used a recruiting tools by the jihadis for a long time. Why turn against them now?

ML: Maybe because the jihad isnít going very well in Iraq at the moment?

JJA: Thatís close, but it doesnít get us all the way to the key point.

ML: Donít be coy, please, the damn ouija board is starting to spark again, Iím going to lose you soon.

JJA: The authors of the letter are blaming Zarqawi for the loss of popular support in Iraq. They want to put a human face on the jihad.

ML: Some human face, they want us and the Iraqis to be killed by guns instead of knives.

JJA: Yeah, but even some of their supporters in the media are unhappy with the bloodthirsty methods.

ML: So you think maybe Zarqawi is on the way out?

JJA: It wouldnít surprise me. Zawahiri does raise a question about the leadership of the terrorists in Iraq by a non-Iraqi like Zarqawi, doesnít he? "If there is sensitivity (to the leadership of a Jordanian like Zarqawi), what is its effect? And how can it be eliminated while preserving the commitment of the jihadist work and without exposing it to any shocks?"

ML: So itís a black spot?

JJA: Maybe a mafia kiss.

ML: And what about Zawahiriís request for money?

I could barely hear Angleton, it actually sounded like he was spitting.

JJA: ...Damnest thing I ever heard...wants us to think heís run out of cash in his cave or some idiotic thing...utter bleeping nonsense...

And he was gone.

ó Michael Ledeen, an NRO contributing editor, is most recently the author of The War Against the Terror Masters. He is resident scholar in the Freedom Chair at the American Enterprise Institute.


GOTTA LOVE IT. HE'S OF A RARE BREED!

EVER OCCURED TO YOU THAT THIS GUY'S JUST TOO GOOD? I MEAN ONLY CERTAIN BRANDS ARE THIS GOOD! WHERE HAVE I SEEN IT BEFORE? HMM.

YET AGAIN, IT'S AMAZING TO SEE LEDEEN ALL ENTANGLED IN OLD BRITISH TRICKS. LOL

IT'S AS IF HE'S DISCOVERED SOMETHING BIG, YET CAN'T QUITE GRASP IT IN ALL DIMENSIONS. HE MAYBE GOOD, BUT THE BRITS ARE THE BEST AT THIS GAME.

GO LEDEEN GO. MAYBE YOU'LL BE THE FIRST AMERICAN WHO FINALLY CONNECTED THE DOTS !

_________________
Paayande Iran


Last edited by Liberty Now ! on Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:38 pm; edited 4 times in total
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perzopolis



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 73

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

espandyar wrote:
cyrus wrote:
Oppenheimer wrote:

Dear Cyrus,

I still say let them have their say and deal with it after. If the panalist by the same name as the following post(from the Link in the SMCCDI article), has the same attitude....it is better to let him hang himself with his own words, just as Antar did at the UN.

The bottom line is I'll wait to see the transcript from the AEI meeting before I draw conclusion....


Dear Oppenheimer,
This is a good strategy "it is better to let him hang himself with his own words, just as Antar did at the UN" and good point.



What the both of you stated is a exuse not to contront Ledeen.
But no worries those who care will!! Committee for Defense of Iranian Territorial Integrity, (CDITI) is not SMCCDI eventhough SMMCCDI is one of the memebrs. There are several well known organizations involved.
Thank god that they are not affraid of people like Ledeen!
How are you suppose to fight the IR when you even cant raise your voice to protest gainst known seperatsit? wait and see?????

Anyways thank you other avtivist for showing your concern:
Here is peition that you should send to everyone you know:

http://www.marzeporgohar.com/index.php?l=1&cat=18&scat=161&artid=673

Payande Iran
Espandyar Irani


espandyar, looks as though ledeen is the moderator. This by no means suggests that he agrees with viewpoints of the panelists. Do you not think it wiser to simply let them have their say, see what they say and the judge them post-conference?

SMCCDI letter was a good step - but other than the letter, we can not say they have no right to speak. Although, Ledeen should make clear during the conference as well as post-conference where he stands and if his current and true feelings still parallel all of those found in his great articles!
_________________
Freedom for the Iranian people! NOT EUROPEAN BUSINESS INTERESTS!
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cyrus
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 4993

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

perzopolis wrote:
espandyar wrote:
cyrus wrote:
Oppenheimer wrote:

Dear Cyrus,

I still say let them have their say and deal with it after. If the panalist by the same name as the following post(from the Link in the SMCCDI article), has the same attitude....it is better to let him hang himself with his own words, just as Antar did at the UN.

The bottom line is I'll wait to see the transcript from the AEI meeting before I draw conclusion....


Dear Oppenheimer,
This is a good strategy "it is better to let him hang himself with his own words, just as Antar did at the UN" and good point.



What the both of you stated is a exuse not to contront Ledeen.
But no worries those who care will!! Committee for Defense of Iranian Territorial Integrity, (CDITI) is not SMCCDI eventhough SMMCCDI is one of the memebrs. There are several well known organizations involved.
Thank god that they are not affraid of people like Ledeen!
How are you suppose to fight the IR when you even cant raise your voice to protest gainst known seperatsit? wait and see?????

Anyways thank you other avtivist for showing your concern:
Here is peition that you should send to everyone you know:

http://www.marzeporgohar.com/index.php?l=1&cat=18&scat=161&artid=673

Payande Iran
Espandyar Irani


espandyar, looks as though ledeen is the moderator. This by no means suggests that he agrees with viewpoints of the panelists. Do you not think it wiser to simply let them have their say, see what they say and the judge them post-conference?

SMCCDI letter was a good step - but other than the letter, we can not say they have no right to speak. Although, Ledeen should make clear during the conference as well as post-conference where he stands and if his current and true feelings still parallel all of those found in his great articles!

Dear perzopolis,
Agree with your statement. Wait and see before we jump into conclusion regarding Dr. leeden and his possible view .
Regards,
Cyrus
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blank



Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 1672

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

espandyar wrote:
cyrus wrote:
Oppenheimer wrote:

Dear Cyrus,

I still say let them have their say and deal with it after. If the panalist by the same name as the following post(from the Link in the SMCCDI article), has the same attitude....it is better to let him hang himself with his own words, just as Antar did at the UN.

The bottom line is I'll wait to see the transcript from the AEI meeting before I draw conclusion....


Dear Oppenheimer,
This is a good strategy "it is better to let him hang himself with his own words, just as Antar did at the UN" and good point.



What the both of you stated is a exuse not to contront Ledeen.
But no worries those who care will!! Committee for Defense of Iranian Territorial Integrity, (CDITI) is not SMCCDI eventhough SMMCCDI is one of the memebrs. There are several well known organizations involved.
Thank god that they are not affraid of people like Ledeen!
How are you suppose to fight the IR when you even cant raise your voice to protest gainst known seperatsit? wait and see?????

Anyways thank you other avtivist for showing your concern:
Here is peition that you should send to everyone you know:

http://www.marzeporgohar.com/index.php?l=1&cat=18&scat=161&artid=673

Payande Iran
Espandyar Irani


Espandyar:
It seems like you don't read things carefully, if you had read that letter at the end you would see:

The "Committee for Defense of Iranian Territorial
Integrity" (CDITI)

* SMCCDI is a memeber of the CDITI Coalition


Why are you trying to repeat something that we already know and aware of?? are you afraid that people might think SMCCDI "owns" CDITI? or get more credit than Marzeporgohar? On Sept 14th Aryo and Roozbeh were both on the same podium.

I don't have any objections to these separatist wanting to spew their ideology, in fact the more they talk and their pictures are out, the better we know who these guys are, and they would be "out of closet" rejected by majority of Iranians. As long as they do not engage in activities such as what Basque separatist are doing in Spain.
My main objection to AEI, is that they failed to invite anyone from an opposing viewpoint. How can they have a one sided debate/conference? without any opposing point of view. Imo this "conference" is not a credible one.
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ViaHHakimi



Joined: 22 Jul 2004
Posts: 142

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:54 pm    Post subject: Open letter to "American Enterprise Institute" (AE Reply with quote

Open letter to "American Enterprise Institute" (AEI)
By (Public Statement)
Oct 17, 2005, 15:36


Dear Sirs,

On June 16, 2005, the American president declared, "America believes in the independence and territorial integrity of Iran." For the last five years the American president has reiterated his support for democracy in the Middle East, specifically citing that he stands with the people of Iran in their quest for freedom.

The American Enterprise Institute has generally been supportive of President Bush's message of democracy and pluralism in Iran. Regretfully, the relatively positive attitude Iranians have towards the policies and ideology of AEI are now are at risk due to a conference that is to take place at AEI named "Unknown Iran."

The conference's aim is to shed light with regards to why federalism should be implemented in Iran; however the panelists of this conference are all well-known separatists. Iran's problem is not the implementation of foreign and potentially damaging ideas such as federalism, rather the lack of territorial management on the part of the Islamic Republic. If there is one thing that all Iranians agree and are united on, regardless of political affiliation, it is the preservation of Iran's territorial campaign was a clear example that when it comes to matters relating to Iran's territorial integrity, Iranians speak with one voice.

We urge you to take greater care with regards to conferences and policies pertaining to Iran. In order to clarify AEI's position that it is not interested in supporting separatism in Iran, we request that only the genuine Iranian flag be displayed at the above mentioned conference, the Lion and the Sun.

Your cooperation in safe guarding Iranís integrity will be highly appreciated.

H. Hakimi,

Oslo,

Norway
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espandyar



Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

blank wrote:
espandyar wrote:
cyrus wrote:
Oppenheimer wrote:

Dear Cyrus,

I still say let them have their say and deal with it after. If the panalist by the same name as the following post(from the Link in the SMCCDI article), has the same attitude....it is better to let him hang himself with his own words, just as Antar did at the UN.

The bottom line is I'll wait to see the transcript from the AEI meeting before I draw conclusion....


Dear Oppenheimer,
This is a good strategy "it is better to let him hang himself with his own words, just as Antar did at the UN" and good point.



What the both of you stated is a exuse not to contront Ledeen.
But no worries those who care will!! Committee for Defense of Iranian Territorial Integrity, (CDITI) is not SMCCDI eventhough SMMCCDI is one of the memebrs. There are several well known organizations involved.
Thank god that they are not affraid of people like Ledeen!
How are you suppose to fight the IR when you even cant raise your voice to protest gainst known seperatsit? wait and see?????

Anyways thank you other avtivist for showing your concern:
Here is peition that you should send to everyone you know:

http://www.marzeporgohar.com/index.php?l=1&cat=18&scat=161&artid=673

Payande Iran
Espandyar Irani


Espandyar:
It seems like you don't read things carefully, if you had read that letter at the end you would see:

The "Committee for Defense of Iranian Territorial
Integrity" (CDITI)

* SMCCDI is a memeber of the CDITI Coalition


Why are you trying to repeat something that we already know and aware of?? are you afraid that people might think SMCCDI "owns" CDITI? or get more credit than Marzeporgohar? On Sept 14th Aryo and Roozbeh were both on the same podium.

I don't have any objections to these separatist wanting to spew their ideology, in fact the more they talk and their pictures are out, the better we know who these guys are, and they would be "out of closet" rejected by majority of Iranians. As long as they do not engage in activities such as what Basque separatist are doing in Spain.
My main objection to AEI, is that they failed to invite anyone from an opposing viewpoint. How can they have a one sided debate/conference? without any opposing point of view. Imo this "conference" is not a credible one.



No, in this case aryo or roozbeh is the same for me. i just missed it and i thought to inform you that there are several org behind the statement, as you see this is not about promoting any group but all of them who stand up.
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espandyar



Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

perzopolis wrote:
espandyar wrote:
cyrus wrote:
Oppenheimer wrote:

Dear Cyrus,

I still say let them have their say and deal with it after. If the panalist by the same name as the following post(from the Link in the SMCCDI article), has the same attitude....it is better to let him hang himself with his own words, just as Antar did at the UN.

The bottom line is I'll wait to see the transcript from the AEI meeting before I draw conclusion....


Dear Oppenheimer,
This is a good strategy "it is better to let him hang himself with his own words, just as Antar did at the UN" and good point.



What the both of you stated is a exuse not to contront Ledeen.
But no worries those who care will!! Committee for Defense of Iranian Territorial Integrity, (CDITI) is not SMCCDI eventhough SMMCCDI is one of the memebrs. There are several well known organizations involved.
Thank god that they are not affraid of people like Ledeen!
How are you suppose to fight the IR when you even cant raise your voice to protest gainst known seperatsit? wait and see?????

Anyways thank you other avtivist for showing your concern:
Here is peition that you should send to everyone you know:

http://www.marzeporgohar.com/index.php?l=1&cat=18&scat=161&artid=673

Payande Iran
Espandyar Irani


espandyar, looks as though ledeen is the moderator. This by no means suggests that he agrees with viewpoints of the panelists. Do you not think it wiser to simply let them have their say, see what they say and the judge them post-conference?

SMCCDI letter was a good step - but other than the letter, we can not say they have no right to speak. Although, Ledeen should make clear during the conference as well as post-conference where he stands and if his current and true feelings still parallel all of those found in his great articles!


Ledeen is not only the moderator but the organzier of this event. I think it is very important to raise our voice in such events. You can refer to every Iranian scholar and ask them about the term Iranian nationalities and you will hear the same answer. We have no Iranian nationaities but etnicities. Now concider the signature these groups have used and some emails that you might see from one of the panelist not to mention the Alawaz book author who is in the panel as well.
We will look at the post conference as well but the strategy of these seperatist are to promote federalism and they will hide behind the federalism cover nevertheless their intentions are clear.
When the opposition raise its voice friends and foes will know that we are awake and looking at thse matters with open eyes.
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espandyar



Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Open letter to "American Enterprise Institute" Reply with quote

ViaHHakimi wrote:
Open letter to "American Enterprise Institute" (AEI)
By (Public Statement)
Oct 17, 2005, 15:36


Dear Sirs,

On June 16, 2005, the American president declared, "America believes in the independence and territorial integrity of Iran." For the last five years the American president has reiterated his support for democracy in the Middle East, specifically citing that he stands with the people of Iran in their quest for freedom.

The American Enterprise Institute has generally been supportive of President Bush's message of democracy and pluralism in Iran. Regretfully, the relatively positive attitude Iranians have towards the policies and ideology of AEI are now are at risk due to a conference that is to take place at AEI named "Unknown Iran."

The conference's aim is to shed light with regards to why federalism should be implemented in Iran; however the panelists of this conference are all well-known separatists. Iran's problem is not the implementation of foreign and potentially damaging ideas such as federalism, rather the lack of territorial management on the part of the Islamic Republic. If there is one thing that all Iranians agree and are united on, regardless of political affiliation, it is the preservation of Iran's territorial campaign was a clear example that when it comes to matters relating to Iran's territorial integrity, Iranians speak with one voice.

We urge you to take greater care with regards to conferences and policies pertaining to Iran. In order to clarify AEI's position that it is not interested in supporting separatism in Iran, we request that only the genuine Iranian flag be displayed at the above mentioned conference, the Lion and the Sun.

Your cooperation in safe guarding Iranís integrity will be highly appreciated.

H. Hakimi,

Oslo,

Norway



Mr.Hakimi Thank you for standing up and make your voice heard!
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Main Entry: fed∑er∑al∑ism
Pronunciation: 'fe-dr&-"li-z&m, 'fe-d&-r&-
Function: noun
often cap : distribution of power in a federation between the central authority and the constituent units (as states) involving esp. the allocation of significant lawmaking powers to those constituent units

---------------

espandyar wrote:

"We will look at the post conference as well but the strategy of these seperatist are to promote federalism and they will hide behind the federalism cover nevertheless their intentions are clear."


Pretty hide to hide behind something that is the total opposite of something else (see definition above).

I just got off the phone with AEI, and Ledeen's assistant there.

They are well aware of the panelists, and one in particular (mentioned in SMCCDI's letter). Ledeen will not allow, as moderator for this to become what you fear.

And I should note that as I spoke with this nice lady, we had a very good discussion regarding the concerns expressed here on activistchat, and she was well aware of the discussion we are having ....in fact this young lady, when noting her first name was to me rather unusual...she said it was "Persian" in origin.

Now ask yourself one question, as she is well aware of this conversation....how now do you wish to come off as being democratic?

I still don't know if you represent the group you expouse, but I may just give them a phone call as well to find out their views on this directly.

As for Blank's concern regarding inclusiveness, I brought this up as well, and she told me something I already knew, that Ledeen had moderated or sponsored discussions with various other Iranian opposition groups in the past, and that this was a panel particular of ethnic minorities that are giving testimony as well as to the regime's crimes againt them.

I said I would follow up and I did....at the source.

If you don't believe me, anyone here can make the same phone call I did. It's a free country, after all.....(chuckle).

See, you arn't dealing with a buch of idiots that will jump when you snap your fingers, and you've earned the doubts of others in trying to do so.

You ever hear the tale of the boy who cried "wolf"?
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cyrus
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 4993

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oppenheimer wrote:
Main Entry: fed∑er∑al∑ism
Pronunciation: 'fe-dr&-"li-z&m, 'fe-d&-r&-
Function: noun
often cap : distribution of power in a federation between the central authority and the constituent units (as states) involving esp. the allocation of significant lawmaking powers to those constituent units

---------------

espandyar wrote:

"We will look at the post conference as well but the strategy of these seperatist are to promote federalism and they will hide behind the federalism cover nevertheless their intentions are clear."


Pretty hide to hide behind something that is the total opposite of something else (see definition above).

I just got off the phone with AEI, and Ledeen's assistant there.

They are well aware of the panelists, and one in particular (mentioned in SMCCDI's letter). Ledeen will not allow, as moderator for this to become what you fear.

And I should note that as I spoke with this nice lady, we had a very good discussion regarding the concerns expressed here on activistchat, and she was well aware of the discussion we are having ....in fact this young lady, when noting her first name was to me rather unusual...she said it was "Persian" in origin.

Now ask yourself one question, as she is well aware of this conversation....how now do you wish to come off as being democratic?

I still don't know if you represent the group you expouse, but I may just give them a phone call as well to find out their views on this directly.

As for Blank's concern regarding inclusiveness, I brought this up as well, and she told me something I already knew, that Ledeen had moderated or sponsored discussions with various other Iranian opposition groups in the past, and that this was a panel particular of ethnic minorities that are giving testimony as well as to the regime's crimes againt them.

I said I would follow up and I did....at the source.

If you don't believe me, anyone here can make the same phone call I did. It's a free country, after all.....(chuckle).

See, you arn't dealing with a buch of idiots that will jump when you snap your fingers, and you've earned the doubts of others in trying to do so.

You ever hear the tale of the boy who cried "wolf"?


Dear Oppenheimer,
Thank you for your hard work, valuable information and contributions.
Regards,
Cyrus
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Cyrus,

Oh sir, believe me, it was a pleasure.....15-20 minutes well spent.
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Oppenheimer



Joined: 03 Mar 2005
Posts: 1166
Location: SantaFe, New Mexico

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dear Cyrus,

While I think fears of somehow legitimising these individuals on the panel of this AEI meeting are a bit unlikely to materialize..(as I think letting them hang themselves with their own words will inherently prevent that).....the law of unintended concequences is also at work, as it seems from what I've heard from a friend that the regime is also aware of this meeting, and using it for the regime's own propaganda purposes over the last couple days.

So while I understand AEI's intent is good in and of itself, the results may be otherwise as it seems to have enlarged rifts between opposition groups, and the regime itself is intent on using this to justify crackdowns.

Ledeen himself may not yet be aware of what he has started, but perhaps there can be a positive outcome if the opposition community can take the debate to a higher level in so far as the nature of the regime is concerned to a world audience in a broad based conference including a cross section of the Iranian opposition, and various US and other nation's representitives, in a "meeting of the minds" regarding the future of Iran.


To;



Office of Public Liaison

Bureau of Public Affairs

U.S. Department of State

2201 C Street NW, Room 2206

Washington, DC 20520-2204



To Whom It May Concern,

Regarding the president's stated position regarding America standing with the Iranian people's aspirations for freedom, there has been expressed within various groups of expatriate Iranians in the US, the desire for dialogue with the US Gov. as well as other free nation's representatives in a roundtable "forum of the future".

I am writing to inquire whether such a dialogue would be found useful and informative, and if the US Dept of State would entertain such a proposal in general, or under what specific guidelines.

What format and protocol would be most appropriate for the Dept. of State, should such a meeting of the minds be arranged, and procedures on constructing such a dialogue, as well.

Noting the State Dept's dialogue with other opposition groups among various nations in the effort to promote democratic institutions and inclusiveness in political fora and the policy of support for the Iranian people's liberty, it seems to be a logical step in fostering understanding and voicing ideas and feedback regarding issues of mutual concern.

Such a conference inclusive of a vetted cross section, representative of the varied Iranian groups in dialogue between themselves and between nations with interest in human rights, democracy, and concerned within the context of security issues, may become mutually beneficial if not essential to building trust and a road forward.

I have been placed in a kind of unique position in this enquiry into the possibilities, as a private US citizen with no roots in Iran, but having been in dialogue with a cross section of the Iranian /American community enough to have been asked by some of them to pose the idea.

Since it seems to stand as mutually beneficial and a good public diplomacy opportunity, in support of the president's stated foreign policy I agreed to look into it.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.



Regards,

(Oppenheimer)



--------

My feeling is the best way to protest is to have a better idea...
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cyrus
Site Admin


Joined: 24 Jun 2003
Posts: 4993

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oppenheimer wrote:
Dear Cyrus,

While I think fears of somehow legitimising these individuals on the panel of this AEI meeting are a bit unlikely to materialize..(as I think letting them hang themselves with their own words will inherently prevent that).....the law of unintended concequences is also at work, as it seems from what I've heard from a friend that the regime is also aware of this meeting, and using it for the regime's own propaganda purposes over the last couple days.

So while I understand AEI's intent is good in and of itself, the results may be otherwise as it seems to have enlarged rifts between opposition groups, and the regime itself is intent on using this to justify crackdowns.

Ledeen himself may not yet be aware of what he has started, but perhaps there can be a positive outcome if the opposition community can take the debate to a higher level in so far as the nature of the regime is concerned to a world audience in a broad based conference including a cross section of the Iranian opposition, and various US and other nation's representitives, in a "meeting of the minds" regarding the future of Iran.


To;



Office of Public Liaison
Bureau of Public Affairs
U.S. Department of State
2201 C Street NW, Room 2206
Washington, DC 20520-2204



To Whom It May Concern,

Regarding the president's stated position regarding America standing with the Iranian people's aspirations for freedom, there has been expressed within various groups of expatriate Iranians in the US, the desire for dialogue with the US Gov. as well as other free nation's representatives in a roundtable "forum of the future".

I am writing to inquire whether such a dialogue would be found useful and informative, and if the US Dept of State would entertain such a proposal in general, or under what specific guidelines.

What format and protocol would be most appropriate for the Dept. of State, should such a meeting of the minds be arranged, and procedures on constructing such a dialogue, as well.

Noting the State Dept's dialogue with other opposition groups among various nations in the effort to promote democratic institutions and inclusiveness in political fora and the policy of support for the Iranian people's liberty, it seems to be a logical step in fostering understanding and voicing ideas and feedback regarding issues of mutual concern.

Such a conference inclusive of a vetted cross section, representative of the varied Iranian groups in dialogue between themselves and between nations with interest in human rights, democracy, and concerned within the context of security issues, may become mutually beneficial if not essential to building trust and a road forward.

I have been placed in a kind of unique position in this enquiry into the possibilities, as a private US citizen with no roots in Iran, but having been in dialogue with a cross section of the Iranian /American community enough to have been asked by some of them to pose the idea.

Since it seems to stand as mutually beneficial and a good public diplomacy opportunity, in support of the president's stated foreign policy I agreed to look into it.

Thank you for your consideration in this matter.



Regards,

(Oppenheimer)



--------

My feeling is the best way to protest is to have a better idea...


Dear Oppenheimer,
"meeting of the minds" in a roundtable "forum of the future" what a great idea, I will present this idea to other oppositions tomorrow for their review and consideration.
Regards
Cyrus
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espandyar



Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oppenheimer wrote:
Main Entry: fed∑er∑al∑ism
Pronunciation: 'fe-dr&-"li-z&m, 'fe-d&-r&-
Function: noun
often cap : distribution of power in a federation between the central authority and the constituent units (as states) involving esp. the allocation of significant lawmaking powers to those constituent units

---------------

espandyar wrote:

"We will look at the post conference as well but the strategy of these seperatist are to promote federalism and they will hide behind the federalism cover nevertheless their intentions are clear."


Pretty hide to hide behind something that is the total opposite of something else (see definition above).

I just got off the phone with AEI, and Ledeen's assistant there.

They are well aware of the panelists, and one in particular (mentioned in SMCCDI's letter). Ledeen will not allow, as moderator for this to become what you fear.

And I should note that as I spoke with this nice lady, we had a very good discussion regarding the concerns expressed here on activistchat, and she was well aware of the discussion we are having ....in fact this young lady, when noting her first name was to me rather unusual...she said it was "Persian" in origin.

Now ask yourself one question, as she is well aware of this conversation....how now do you wish to come off as being democratic?

I still don't know if you represent the group you expouse, but I may just give them a phone call as well to find out their views on this directly.

As for Blank's concern regarding inclusiveness, I brought this up as well, and she told me something I already knew, that Ledeen had moderated or sponsored discussions with various other Iranian opposition groups in the past, and that this was a panel particular of ethnic minorities that are giving testimony as well as to the regime's crimes againt them.

I said I would follow up and I did....at the source.

If you don't believe me, anyone here can make the same phone call I did. It's a free country, after all.....(chuckle).

See, you arn't dealing with a buch of idiots that will jump when you snap your fingers, and you've earned the doubts of others in trying to do so.

You ever hear the tale of the boy who cried "wolf"?



I dont expect you to get this and i dont even know why Iam bothering.
You have just been intoduced to thse kind of people on a cyber space Bullitin board where as people in the opposition and sscholars and everyone else have had their eyes open to these activites for many years.
You simply dont get thet federalism is the cover for their intentiotn, you dont get it sogo ahead and and search for federalism dozen more times.

So far the only thing we have earned is a united front of the oppoition against the enemies of Iran.
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