[FREE IRAN Project] In The Spirit Of Cyrus The Great Forum Index [FREE IRAN Project] In The Spirit Of Cyrus The Great
Views expressed here are not necessarily the views & opinions of ActivistChat.com. Comments are unmoderated. Abusive remarks may be deleted. ActivistChat.com retains the rights to all content/IP info in in this forum and may re-post content elsewhere.
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Democracy is overrated

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    [FREE IRAN Project] In The Spirit Of Cyrus The Great Forum Index -> General Discussion & Announcements
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Arash.au



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2005 5:04 pm    Post subject: Democracy is overrated Reply with quote

My latest

Democracy is overrated
The authoritarian development state



Arash Sayedi
October 6, 2005
iranian.com

There are few who would refute the claim that the Japanese model of modernisation has been one of the greatest miracles of the 20 th century. Any system that could achieve in two generations what Europe did in three hundred years is a powerful one and one that cannot be ignored. Many see Japan and the Asian Tigers as democratic nations but a brief look at their near history reveals that during their periods of high economic growth they were anything but.

The truth is that after the Second World War and right up until 1993 Japan was governed by a single party. The LDP ruled exclusively in Japan for over 30 years and dominated the country's political scene from the 1960s until the mid 90s. The country seemingly had a democratic constitution but a single party dominated and crushed all opposition for over three decades. And although this was frowned upon in many circles, LDP's activities were tolerated because it "delivered the goods" as it were. Lack of political freedoms were seen as a minor sacrifice compared to the economic miracles delivered by the party's leaders.

South Korea, like Japan, also had a democratic constitution but was ruled by a military dominated one party system. Taiwan had a Guo Min Dang dominated one party system but unlike Japan and South Korea did not give pretence to a democratic society. This trend continued right up until 1996 when free and open presidential elections were held all over the country. And also somewhat similar to South Korea, Philippines and Indonesia plunged into their post colonial fate with a series of military coups that left dictatorships in charge for the greater part of their development years.

Looking at the cold, hard facts of the Japanese model it is hard to deny that Democracy is by far not a necessary element for progress and modernisation. In fact an open democratic society can greatly hamper growth during the early periods of development as it wastes the energies of the nation through a lack of one minded direction. A somewhat authoritarian government however can direct and focus people's energy towards rapid growth and have far more impact in the short run than a democratic state.

The myth that industrial modernisation stems from political democratisation or that the former is somehow an offspring of the latter was due to the British and American models that went unchallenged for a long period of time. The 1917 revolution was of course the first formidable challenge the democratic model received and was later used by Japan to emulate a strong authoritarian state albeit not as harsh as the Soviet model.

In essence the Japanese model is a mixture of the two western systems. What has been called the Authoritarian Model of Modernisation is a strong, one party state that maintains stability and neutralises opposition and at the same time commands a capitalistic economy. The government in this case is not a harsh repressive one like that of the Soviet Union but a mildly authoritative force that is united in purpose rather than a pluralistic system that wastes much energy. And it is also important to note that even though the democratic model of the west did achieve modernisation it did so in the course of centuries by heavily relying on internal entrepreneurial investment and increasingly volatile markets.

A more centralised government can greatly speed up the process of modernisation as in the case of Japan and other Asian countries by actively encouraging foreign investment through tax incentives, studying world markets and providing information to business leaders and more actively engaging in the development process. A developing country will need to repress potential labour unrests and keep a low wage labour market in order to attract western manufacturers. This is a short term strategy that helps accumulate the necessary capital for industrialisation and one that requires the presence of an authoritarian state.

In fact so powerful is this process that it literally stood colonial relations of the west to many Asian countries on their heads. After the 1970s the roles of many western countries were reversed as they now exported raw materials to newly industrialised Asian countries and inturn imported electronic and textile goods. Literally the opposite of what had been going on mere decades ago.

But all this is not to say that open democratic societies are not useful or attractive. The Authoritarian model, as in the case of many Asian countries, is merely a temporary phase that later gives way to open, democratic elections in an almost automatic, harmonious way. If anything, modernisation seems to be the driving force behind democracy and not the other way around. Democracy itself is a highly ideal system for advanced countries where the process of modernisation is complete and a unified workforce is no longer the main issue. But history suggests that developing countries taking up the democratic model from the start may be hampering their modernising efforts and are far better off with the superior model of the strong authoritarian state, at least for the initial periods of economic growth.

It is my belief that the Shah of Iran had taken up the same course of action and was leading the country on the path of modernisation. But where more or less unified Asian countries with less ethnic and religious complexities succeeded, the Shah needed to take much more care and appreciate Iran's situation. Had greater strategic use of the media and more tolerance towards certain segments of society been employed we may have been able to avoid the 1979 tragedy. But never the less it remains my belief that a future prosperous Iran will require a strong, authoritative state similar to but much milder than the rule of the Shah rather than a soft, democratic system that could hold back our modernising efforts. For our greatest aim for the future should be economic and military power that would usher in freedom and prosperity.

http://www.iranian.com/Sayedi/2005/October/Democracy/index.html
_________________
The god of the cannibals will be a cannibal, of the crusaders a crusader, and of the merchants a merchant.

--Ralph Waldo Emmerson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AmirN



Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 1:42 pm    Post subject: Democracy Reply with quote

Bravo, Arash jaan, for that intelligent and informed analysis. I completely agree with you. The Shah had his heart in the right place, and was trying to genuinely help Iran and Iranians. He made a few mistakes in retrospect, that led to his downfall. Namely, inflaming political dissidents. There should never be any tolaration in the future for imprisoning of political dissidents. Short of that, we do need a strong and benevolent leader; one that will also show tolerance for those who disagree with him.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blank



Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 1672

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 4:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Democracy Reply with quote

AmirN wrote:
Bravo, Arash jaan, for that intelligent and informed analysis. I completely agree with you. The Shah had his heart in the right place, and was trying to genuinely help Iran and Iranians. He made a few mistakes in retrospect, that led to his downfall. Namely, inflaming political dissidents. There should never be any tolaration in the future for imprisoning of political dissidents. Short of that, we do need a strong and benevolent leader; one that will also show tolerance for those who disagree with him.


Let me tell you what kind of political prisoners we had, Rafsanjani, Khomeini, Massoud Rajavi (MKO), psudo-intellectuals of the left that Shah knew, they would sell Iran in a heart beat to gain power and impose their own ideology (something MKO still wants to do). And they did sell out, to an Arab/Brit called Khomeini, and all these traitors that were freed from prison, backed this horrible animal and his apes and the rest is history.
If you think for a minute, in the future, you can allow a bunch of Palestinian/arab terrorists brought in by Khomeini and Iranian terrorists/Hezbollah, not to mention MKOs, "should not be in prison because of their political belief", there will be a civil war, because they will terrorize the whole country until they can implant their Shria law and or islamo/commi brand of government, MKO's ideal.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AmirN



Joined: 23 Sep 2005
Posts: 297

PostPosted: Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blank, please don't misunderstand me. I think that most of the people that were put in jail were troublemakers, and probably deserved to be there.

But the more important concept is that it is not for me to decide who is a troublemaker, and who needs to go to jail for their beliefs. Nor should anyone else make such a decision. I believe that freedom of speech, expression, and press are fundamental to the health and prosperity of a nation. I believe in the due process of law.

The way that these dissidents should be handled is by confronting them with their own means; the voice and the pen, not the shackles. When they get silenced and incarcerated, they become focal points of criticism and heroes for the ignorant masses, as we saw. But by allowing them to speak their babble, and countering a verbal or written response, outlining the error of their ways, and taking away their thunder.

And what if tomorrow you or someone else thinks my views are wrong. Does that justify my imprisonment? I don't want to live in a society that might persecute me some day because of my beliefs...do you? This is the reason most of us left Iran, to avoid someone else dictating to us what we should believe and how we should act.

Ku Klux Klan members are the biggest morons (short of our mullahs) in history. But should we imprison them because we don't agree with them? Not unless they break the law.

The price of freedom is to allow others to have their freedom.

Ba sepaas

Amir
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Arash.au



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Machiavelli would tell you that the illusion of freedom is more important than its reality. People are much less likely to rise against a government when they think they are free.

And indeed most freedoms are no threat to our economic prosperity and will infact help boost it.

The only time a strong government needs to exercise an iron fist policy is when its progressive aims for the future are politically challenged by the opposition. So when it comes to ordinary people, freedom of speech and all the fluff that goes with it is well and good but when that freedom starts to become organised to the extend that it poses a threat to the status quo it needs to be dealt with swiftly.
_________________
The god of the cannibals will be a cannibal, of the crusaders a crusader, and of the merchants a merchant.

--Ralph Waldo Emmerson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
blank



Joined: 26 Feb 2004
Posts: 1672

PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AmirN wrote:
Blank, please don't misunderstand me. I think that most of the people that were put in jail were troublemakers, and probably deserved to be there.

But the more important concept is that it is not for me to decide who is a troublemaker, and who needs to go to jail for their beliefs. Nor should anyone else make such a decision. I believe that freedom of speech, expression, and press are fundamental to the health and prosperity of a nation. I believe in the due process of law.

The way that these dissidents should be handled is by confronting them with their own means; the voice and the pen, not the shackles
. When they get silenced and incarcerated, they become focal points of criticism and heroes for the ignorant masses, as we saw. But by allowing them to speak their babble, and countering a verbal or written response, outlining the error of their ways, and taking away their thunder.

And what if tomorrow you or someone else thinks my views are wrong. Does that justify my imprisonment? I don't want to live in a society that might persecute me some day because of my beliefs...do you? This is the reason most of us left Iran, to avoid someone else dictating to us what we should believe and how we should act.

Ku Klux Klan members are the biggest morons (short of our mullahs) in history. But should we imprison them because we don't agree with them? Not unless they break the law.

The price of freedom is to allow others to have their freedom.

Ba sepaas

Amir


Unfortunately their own means is not, voice of reason, or pen where you normally see in a civilized society; their means will be suicide bombers, arson, kidnapping, assassinations etc... similar to what you see in Iraq and Lebanon. Thus, their aim is not to be reasonable and negotiate, but to win at any cost. Even during Shah's regime with his iron fist, he could not prevent arson and assassinations of the few prime ministers, which was the work of the father of MKO, hezbeh-tudeh and the ragheads...
It would be great if they were willing to debate on different topics, but the mentality is what we saw even few weeks ago; MKO's had paid off people so they would represent the majority in the rally in front of the UN on Sept. 14th. Although all the oppostion groups had promised not to bring anyone's picture, to show the sign of unity; they could not convince MKO not to bring any pictures. Finally, the monarchist decided to bring RP's picture, so people around the world would not think the two terrorists, Maryam & Massoud, are the representative of all the oppostion groups.
My fear is even if this regime is toppled, all the terrorists on the payroll will cause the biggest terror and mayhem that people would say what Iraqis are saying now "they had more security & peace under Sadam"!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Liberty Now !



Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 521

PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what's wrong with civil wars? they're proven to be very lucrative for western companies! the very reason they didn't want the peace and tranquility, stability, and strenghth that Shah brought about in Iran, and that spread the region.

the West wanted a chaotic Middle East in the hands of most backward fascist groups. they've paved the way for it. they've invested on it. and they have been reaping the lucrative interests ever since.

what makes you think they've changed their mind now?

who's to say those who supported khomeini wont support the MKO this time.

what evidence you have that the West actually wants peace, stability and advancement in Middle East?

all we got is few empty promises. even on that khatami did a better job. and delivery of peace and democracy by force and attacks (?) is something no nation should count on my dear.
_________________
Paayande Iran
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Arash.au



Joined: 10 Aug 2005
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Liberty Now ! wrote:

what evidence you have that the West actually wants peace, stability and advancement in Middle East?


I wrote this a while back. It answers exactly that question.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Global transition

Arash Sayedi
December 17, 2004
iranian.com

http://www.iranian.com/Opinion/2004/December/Global/index.html

We stand at the brink of a global transition. At the dawn of the 21st century the men and women of the developed world stand witness to a phenomenon repeated many times throughout the course of human history. Mainly that of the movement of wealth and power across borders. In this case from 'West' to 'East'.

The symptoms of this phenomenon can be easily observed in the general anxiety of the first world, reflected in bitter dispositions, strict immigration laws, protectionist policy making and a sense of uneasiness that stems from the never before experienced pace of change that is sweeping the planet.

It has been almost a century since Oswald Spengler's "The Decline of the West", and if there is one statement made by Spengler that has stood the test of time is the notion that cultures are inherently organic, in the sense that they follow patterns of youth, adulthood, old age and death.

This is not to say that what is being suggested here is the death of the first world but rather the end of an era in the history of what was once dubbed 'the West' but must now be called 'the developed world' in order to encompass the many new members who are located in the Eastern hemisphere. An era that began with the birth of the industrial revolution, and one that will end(mainly in the developed world) with the emergence of the post industrial, information driven economy.

The industrial revolution, the birth bangs of which are so vividly described in the timeless works of writers like Charles Dickens, is however, far from dead. It is merely being relocated to the developing world where it can begin it's cycle of mass production anew.

It has long been agreed that capital and technology are the prerequisites of economic success. Without these two elements no country can ever reach any degree of development. When it comes to the East, for well over a century, the chief aim of the West had been the prevention of the accumulation of capital. Capital that could lead to the development and/or purchase of technology with the potential to kick start the wheels of industry and set forth in motion a nation's economy toward success.

Prevention of capital to accumulate has been the most effective tool of the West in preventing the what were once dubbed 'undeveloped' but have of late been given the more optimistic title of 'developing' countries, from rising to power. That in unison with the installment and active support of corrupt and totalitarian regimes has led to the successful prevention of strong economies from being developed in most Eastern nations.

When one thinks of such strategies, the words 'Iran-Contra' often come to mind. It is important to note here that the aim of such transactions has never been for profit but was rather used, quite effectively, as a means of extracting pockets of capital from nations who had either managed to develop a marginally effective economy or had alternative sources of income, such as Iran's oil revenues. Where this was not possible the governments where, by overt and covert means, overthrown.

Towards the end of the 1980s, however, as the world stepped into the last decade of the 20th century, it became quite clear that the markets of the developed world were reaching their point of saturation. When one first hears of this, the words 'Overripe Capitalism', uttered by Lenin a century ago, come to mind almost immediately. Here we reach a defining point in the history of the West, at least where the multinationals are concerned, when the strategies employed toward developing countries stand on their heads. All patterns in history it seems, sooner or later do turn into their opposites.

Having exhausted the potentials of their own markets in the developed world the multinationals must now turn to alternative markets yet untapped if they are to survive in the new century. And the aggressiveness with which this end is being pursued today suggests that it is very much a question of survival. The majority of the developing world's markets however are quite weak. Meaning the population of these countries do not yet posses sufficient buying power in order to purchase Western goods. The survival of the multinationals depends very much on the creation of a middle class population with adequate buying power and a consumer culture to match.

It is important to note that the latter is just as important as the former and it depends solely on the presence of democratic governmental structures with ample freedom of expression and speech. The primary aim of the movement of capital to the East is achieved by simply relocating manufacturing operations to developing nations. As the developing world produces the goods sold in the first world, the living standards of workers in the former begin to rise to the point where they themselves are able to purchase the goods they produce.

In this way the multinationals themselves profit from relatively cheap production costs and with the aid of loans from various monetary institutions, help create the new and highly fertile markets of the developing world. The movement of sales and production to the East has been called the great gold rush of the 21st century. The potential for wealth creation in these markets is so colossal that no dollar figure could possibly be attached to it. "The world bank notes that the developing countries are growing at 6% per annum, more than double the 2.5 percent projected growth rates of the first world" (Peter Marber, 'From Third World to World Class').

This however poses a number of problems. First is protectionism in the West. The protectionist attitudes of Western governments are very much a reflection of public opinion rooted in the dogmatic conception that someone's increased wealth is generally achieved at someone else's expense. This may have been so a hundred or even fifty years ago but in the 21st century this notion is simply not true.

The loss of industrial jobs is quickly replaced by the creation of post industrial, technology driven ones with much higher salaries. The problem here then is one of education, not lack of jobs. And for the most part the current negative attitude towards the increasing waves of globalization are mere passing moods. And if not, one only has to remember that the power of the market and the multinationals who command it simply dwarfs that of any nation or union, and to move against the general needs and demands of the free market system is ultimately futile.

A second problem is that investment in the developing world requires the safety and security offered under the rule of democratic nations. And the increasing interest of governments with strong corporate lobbies, such as the United States, is in the establishment and continued protection of such states. Where almost the exact opposite strategy was pursued a mere decade ago, the need for democratically run governments was perceived as early as the 90s and remains the predominant aim of the US government.

Backed by the most powerful social forces in the world today, the notion of a free Middle East is one with inevitable outcomes. Predicted as a high growth region with great potential for both production and marketing (factories built close to energy supplies results in massive cuts in production costs), the Middle East is a gem in the developing world, the liberation of which remains the prime concern of the United States, acting on behalf of the most powerful corporations on earth.

What is in store for us in the future remains to be seen. But what is important here is to remember that capitalism and the free market system, driven by the constant development of technology, always has been and remains the primary engine of change. So as we so boldly set forth into the morrow, it is imperative that we embrace the values of the market system and attune our actions with it's ever increasing patterns of change.

And albeit the bitter pessimism of many, great change is on the way. The great abyss facing the people of Iran today is one with colossal feet of clay. One that could shatter into a thousand pieces at even the notion of our unity. An that, on this day and on this hour should remain our chief aim. For our salvation is in our unity and nothing but.

"The world you desire can be won, it exists, it is real, it is possible, it's yours."
-- Ayn Rand

So long and good luck.
_________________
The god of the cannibals will be a cannibal, of the crusaders a crusader, and of the merchants a merchant.

--Ralph Waldo Emmerson
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Spenta



Joined: 04 Sep 2003
Posts: 1829

PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good article Arash, I'm glad you posted it here, I hadn't seen it before.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    [FREE IRAN Project] In The Spirit Of Cyrus The Great Forum Index -> General Discussion & Announcements All times are GMT - 4 Hours
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group