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Azadeh_55



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 467

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
azadeh, i am not judging you, but i would like to know how one can have a conscience in what one does with out the belief in god or a higher being(s)/creator?


It's easy. You do good for the sake of doing good. Not because you fear being punished in hell fire or look forward to getting rewarded by sex with 72 virgins in the afterlife (or just feeling like "big brother is watching you" as Catholics do). That's what a conscience is by definition.

Quote:
so also out of curiosity, were you raised like that or is it self proclaimed?


Yes, I was raised to do good even when no one is watching or even when I know I will get away with doing something bad without any punishment.


Last edited by Azadeh_55 on Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Azadeh_55



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 467

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Just a curious note: I heard an Iranian somewhere not long ago, say that we Iranians have maintaned our culture and traditions through endless invasions and occupations through our spirituality, our poems and poetic language.

So, I can agree that we Iranians, for better or worse have always maintained a certain level of spirituality. This doesn't have to mean that this makes us bonded to islam, I feel that it is more a connection we have with our forfathers' religions and thoughts.

These are just some thoughts though. I still dream of an Iran where islam is fading and where our ancestrial beliefs emerge from our subconcious mind. Even though less religion in our society is needed, I really don't think Iranians will loose their spirituality anytime soon.


And look at where this "spirituaity" has gotten us? A superstitious, pre-industrial, and backward nation still living in the middle ages. The European Renaissance happened centuries ago and we were seeing the face of a bloodthirsty religious leader in the moon as of 25 years ago! How do you explain that? How has religion or sprituality or whatever helped us? It has kept us a bunch of stupid and backward gullible people who look to this and that emamzadeh to solve their life's problems.

And about poetry... I agree with Ahmad Kasravi on that one.
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Saman



Joined: 14 Jul 2003
Posts: 506
Location: Scandinavia

PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Azadeh_55 wrote:
Quote:
Just a curious note: I heard an Iranian somewhere not long ago, say that we Iranians have maintaned our culture and traditions through endless invasions and occupations through our spirituality, our poems and poetic language.

So, I can agree that we Iranians, for better or worse have always maintained a certain level of spirituality. This doesn't have to mean that this makes us bonded to islam, I feel that it is more a connection we have with our forfathers' religions and thoughts.

These are just some thoughts though. I still dream of an Iran where islam is fading and where our ancestrial beliefs emerge from our subconcious mind. Even though less religion in our society is needed, I really don't think Iranians will loose their spirituality anytime soon.


And look at where this "spirituaity" has gotten us? A superstitious, pre-industrial, and backward nation still living in the middle ages. The European Renaissance happened centuries ago and we were seeing the face of a bloodthirsty religious leader in the moon as of 25 years ago! How do you explain that? How has religion or sprituality or whatever helped us? It has kept us a bunch of stupid and backward gullible people who look to this and that emamzadeh to solve their life's problems.

And about poetry... I agree with Ahmad Kasravi on that one.


I agree with the points you have made. But I also feel that our spirituality have helped us maintain our culture. But this might be more appliable to when Arabs invaded our country.
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ARYAI_NYC



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 76
Location: NEW YORK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 12:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree on one thing Azadeh, I do good even when nobody is looking. This is the only way to live.
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Azadeh_55



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 467

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if you believe in any sort of god (and you said that you do), then in your mind someone is looking at all times. So the whole "doing good when no one is looking" thing doesn't really apply in your case, does it?
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ARYAI_NYC



Joined: 14 Jul 2004
Posts: 76
Location: NEW YORK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2004 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

of course it does, that is the entire point. if nobody else is watching, god always is .

Azadeh_55 wrote:
Well if you believe in any sort of god (and you said that you do), then in your mind someone is looking at all times. So the whole "doing good when no one is looking" thing doesn't really apply in your case, does it?

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Azadeh_55



Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 467

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2004 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess that's the difference between us. You don't do good just for the sake of doing good. You do good because you think god is watching.
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Q



Joined: 09 Jan 2004
Posts: 20

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:04 pm    Post subject: Hey kids Reply with quote

Have any of you considered that a life without religion is the absolute expression of freedom? Gods are created by human males to control the herd.
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Connolly



Joined: 26 Nov 2004
Posts: 5
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2004 6:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Hey kids Reply with quote

Q wrote:
Have any of you considered that a life without religion is the absolute expression of freedom? Gods are created by human males to control the herd.


I've never been a terribly religious person, but isn't it true that religion can also be the ultimate expression of freedom? Take a look at Irish history where Celtic Catholicism was a form of rebellion against the crown? What about the Welsh Methodists? They brought back a dead language. Or Iran with Zoroastrianism and Shi'ism. Even Christianity in the very beginning was a call for peace and brotherhood. I think it's when spirituality becomes a political institution (the Vatican, the Caliphate, the Holy Roman Empire, England, etc.) that it becomes corrupted. It's one of those awful double-edged swords.
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