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Bush Can't Afford Inaction on Iran
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redemption



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
Posts: 1158
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2004 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can understand you just fine - btw, I think people would give you more credence if you changed your user name - I can understand what you're saying, but others initially assume you are some basher or troll.. It's up to you - I know what you're getting at though - maybe if you username was Free_Referendum_Only or something.. Who knows - just a suggestion.

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Pan-Iranist



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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: Bush Can't Afford Inaction on Iran Reply with quote

What exactly do you want Bush to do? Bomb Iran? So that innocent Iranians will die or get hurt, and Iranian property damaged? Have you forgotten the thousands of innocent Iraqis who died as a result of Bush's "liberation" of Iraq? Have you forgotten the Iraqi National museum that housed some of the world's greatest archeological finds, and how it got virtually wiped out rjight in front of the eyes of the American "liberators"? I do not see how Iranians who desire that a foreign power should invade Iran can consider themselves as "nationalists"! What is the pride in having a foreign army invade your country? It's a total disgrace! And especially since the administration of that foreign power has become a monster which in its thirst for more wealth and power is continiuosly looking for more lands to invade and bomb... The CIA got involved in 1953, and more than 50 years later we still keep reading and hearing how "the CIA installed the Shah"..... The Shah lost all his legitimacy because of this "CIA label" attached to him. And yet, it really wasn't the CIA who overthrew Mossadeq! It was the Iranians! The CIA coup failed, and the recently released documents clearly state that. But the CIA and the U.S. wants to take the credit for something they did not achieve, and they don't give a damn that the Shah would suffer from it. That's what we have today as well - the U.S. adminidstration don't give a damn about Reza Pahlavi or the plight of the Iranian people - all they want is to achieve their ill-spirited, unethical ambitions of more power and more wealth. The Bush administration has met more than 60 times (!!!) with Mahnmoud Chehregani, the leader of the so called "South Azerbaijan National Awareness Movement" - a separatist movement with the aim of separating Iran's Azarbaijan Province from Iran and annexing it to the Aran Republic (Also erroneously called "Azerbaijan Republic") - "SANAM" and its leader chehregani, are collaborators of the fascist "Pan-Turks" and their promoters within the establishment of the Turkish authorities. "SANAM" and its promoters are also actively cooperating with Khuzestani, Baluchi, Turkmen and Kurdish separatist elements. The U.S. is actively cooperating with "SANAM", its leader, the Pan-Turks, and other Iranian separatists, with the aim of using these forces to create turmoil within Iran - turmoil which hopefully in the eyes of the U.S. administration would lead to a civil war and the disintegration of the Iranian national state. This is not fiction - it's real, and the U.S. is not making any secret of it. It has been reposrted several times by respectable news agencies.

Now, these actions of the U.S. makes the U.S. administration an ENEMY of the Iranian nation - of the Iranian people. Somone who actively works to separate Iranian territory from the motherland cannot be anything less than an enemy of the Iranian nation! And any Iranian who supports those people who have such malicious designs against Iran, becomes a traitor. Israel reportedly has many agents working with the Kurds of Iraq to have them instigate trouble and separtist sentiments in Iran's Kordestan Province - That action makes Israel an enemy of the Iranian nation as well.

I urge those Iranians who sincerely condisers themselves to be nationalists to think twice before endorsing the so called "neo-cons" and their mischievous designs to expand their control over our part of the world. They pretend to be our "friends" and "promoters of democracy" - the reality is different.

Iran must be left alone. The Iranian opposition finds itself in a disastrous state - this is why it's unable to move the masses who oppose the criminal anti-Iranian regime which rules Iran. Instead of cooperating and using such rational voices like Shirin Ebadi, some elements of the opposition takes it upon themselves to launch a crusade against them - A very foolish act which no sensible political strategist would endorse! If the opposition is of such poor quality, then how can we expect them to rule Iran? The oppisiton has to correct all their mistakes first, and get their act together before Iranians can even consider having any faith in them. Once they have done that, then Iranians will most likely be prepared to show their support for them in full scale. At that point the foreign powers will have to listen, and will most probably lend their support - not by invading Iran, but by morally, financially and materially aiding the Iranian opposition in their quest to overthrow the current Iranian regime.

I also urge all Iranian-Americans to vote for Kerry, and once and for all make history of the Bush administration and the dark times that it has brought upon the world.



cyrus wrote:
Bush Can't Afford Inaction on Iran

September 09, 2004
The Los Angeles Times
Max Boot

Source URL : http://iranvajahan.net/cgi-bin/news.pl?l=en&y=2004&m=09&d=09&a=4

Hyped reports about an Israeli "mole" in the Pentagon are falling apart faster than the Kerry campaign. It now seems likely that the analyst in question was, at worst, guilty of mishandling a classified document, not espionage. According to news accounts, the memo he's accused of passing to pro-Israel lobbyists called for U.S. support of Iranian dissidents trying to overthrow their dictatorial government. This may not be spy-novel stuff, but it does raise an important question: Why hasn't President Bush implemented the recommendations reportedly contained in the Pentagon paper?

The case for action seems overwhelming in light of Bush's oft-stated warning: "Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists." There is no question which side Iran is on.

The State Department calls Iran the "most active state sponsor of terrorism in the world." Much of its support goes to groups like Hezbollah and Hamas, but the 9/11 commission also reported that Al Qaeda members including eight to 10 of those involved in the airplane attacks on the United States were allowed to use Iran as a transit route to and from training camps in Afghanistan. A number of Al Qaeda operatives remain in Iran, ostensibly under house arrest but in all likelihood allowed to carry on their deadly work.

Iran has trained and armed Muqtada Sadr's militia, which has been attacking U.S. forces in Iraq. Former Iranian President Hashemi Rafsanjani, the cleric who now heads an influential government council, makes no bones about what his country is up to. In an April sermon, he declared that the situation in Iraq posed "a threat because the wounded American beast can take enraged actions, but it is also an opportunity to teach this beast a lesson so it won't attack another country."

Why would Iran be worried about being attacked by the United States? Because it is close to producing a nuclear bomb. It is also working on missiles with the range to strike targets in Europe and North America, though the likeliest vehicles for delivering an Iranian nuke would be its terrorist networks. Hassan Abasi, a senior member of the Revolutionary Guards, recently boasted that Iran had "a strategy drawn up for the destruction of Anglo-Saxon civilization."

Faced with this grave and gathering threat, John F. Kerry advocates appeasement. He recommends making a deal for Iran to give up its nuclear weapons program in return for U.S. concessions, such as helping it to build "civilian" nuclear reactors. There's no reason to think this approach would work any better than a similar accord with North Korea in 1994. Iran has already violated a 2003 agreement with Britain, France and Germany to curtail its nuclear weapons development. The mullahs are hellbent on going nuclear; they are not going to give up what one Iranian newspaper editor calls "the rare pearl for which we have labored greatly."

If we can't trust Tehran to make a deal, then we need a more confrontational approach. A military strike can't be ruled out, but it would be hard to pull off, especially without better intelligence than we had on Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. Luckily, Iran has a robust opposition movement that makes peaceful change from within a feasible alternative.

Self-styled realists claim that the tyrants of Tehran can't be budged, but then that's what they said about the Soviet commissars too, right up until the fall of the Berlin Wall. As in the Soviet bloc, most people in Iran have lost faith in their rulers. Many have even braved regime goons to protest in the streets. If they can succeed in establishing a representative government, it will not matter whether Iran has nuclear weapons, any more than it matters that India, Israel, France or any other democracy has nukes. Conversely, even without nukes, the terrorist-sponsoring mullahs would remain a major threat. We need to focus on the nature of the regime, not simply the nature of its weapons.

Bush has recognized the need for democratization in the Middle East, yet, oddly enough, he doesn't seem to be doing much to help Iranian freedom fighters. Bush's own deputy secretary of State has said that regime change is not U.S. policy. I hope this is just a ruse to hide covert actions, but I fear it's the truth. On Iran, as in so many other areas, the administration seems to be paralyzed by disagreements between Defense Department hawks and State Department doves. If Bush doesn't break through this gridlock soon, he will greatly undermine his claim to offer strong leadership in the war on terror.
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Pan-Iranist



Joined: 24 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 7:07 am    Post subject: You're not entirely correct! Reply with quote

Haven't you forgotten all the weapons that the U.S. sold to Saddam Hussein? And what about the weapons that the Reagan administration sold to the Khomeini regime in the so called "Iran-Contra" deal?




eski wrote:
Stefania,
If you look at every rogue nation with a dangerous leader, who's weapons do you see in their hands? Russian! The Russians have flooded the world with their weapons and will sell to anybody. I don't even doubt that they have already sold several nukes to people like al queada. They sell to anyone and don't give a damn about the consequences. This has been the case for decades and I don't think it will ever change.
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blank



Joined: 26 Feb 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

US needs to work with legitimate Iranian opposition groups like SMCCDI and others, provide them with whatever they need to topple this regime. The same as what President Reagan did for Poland & Polish people........
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shahee
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How dare you have a name like "Shah sucks?" I don't care if your from Iran. If all Iranians truly believe that the Shah was bad it is because the evil murderous mullah regime made them believe that. The shah was a flower. Our economy was good under him and he made sure that Islam was checked and not crazy like now. If Iranians believe that the Shah was bad, Bush should bomb Tehran and place his holy majesty Reza Pahlavi II back into power my force. Maybe that way we can humanize the Iranians in Iran to become as civilized as the Iranians in Europe and America. If you think about it, thats what we're doing anyway. The reason we have to overthrow the regime from the outside is because Iranians in Iran are lazy and haven't done anything. Faster please!
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Pan-Iranist



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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 7:53 am    Post subject: Bush administration and Israel are the enemies of Iran! Reply with quote

I agree that the Shah acieved a lot for Iran. The reason we see millions of highly educated Iranians inside and outside of Iran is thanks to the patriotic services of Mohammad Reza Shah and his father. The mischievous propaganda against the Pahlavi state was and still is merciless and brutal. However, history will finally reward the truth and the two Pahlavi Shahs will go into Iranian history as two of the greatest and most patriotic rulers Iran ever had.

I do not agree with you about that the people in Iran are not doing away with the mullahs because "they're lazy". It's easy for you and I to sit here in our safety and say such things when our compatriots in Iran would risk their very lives by expressing any opposition against the evil regime. I would agree if you said that there are too many Iranians inside and outside of Iran who do not seem to care about the future or current troublesome state of Iran. That is unfortunately the truth. The real reason though that the Iranian masses who oppose the criminal regime in power are not moving, is because of the DISASTROUS condition of the opposition. The Iranian opposition is a tragedy! It's a disgrace! It knows nothing about STRATEGY and TACTICS, neither does it know what REAL patriotism is about, and that's why it's so disunited. Because REAL patriotism requires that one works for the better of the whole nation - WITHOUT any SELFISH interests! And this one cannot say about the Iranian opposition! The Iranian opposition is the best that could ever have happened to the evil regime in Iran! They all fight with one another - They attack other opponents of the regime, like Shirin Ebadi, who ANY strategist would attest could be a most valuable person to use in the campagin against the regime! Instead they choose to actively harass and insult her. What a delight for the regime in Iran - the opposition is helping them to discredit one of their fiercest critics! And why do they do this? Just because she is a devoted Muslim! And then we have the Iranian exile TV and radiostations in L.A. which are all at each others throats, "competing" with one another! No, this opposition can go to hell! They do not deserve the support of the Iranian nation! And ANYONE who desires that foreign bombs should fall upon the heads of Iranian citizens, or that foreign soldiers should set their feet on Iranian soil, does absolutely not deserve the support of the Iranian nation. Such a person is either misled, or simply not a patriot. It's a shameful suggestion that Americans and Israelis should bomb Iran just so that Reza Pahlavi should regain the throne! It's a suggestion that I'm sure that Reza Pahlavi and Shahbanou would never agree to! Where is the dignity of a King who regains his throne with the help of foreign bombs falling upon the heads of his citizens? Where is his legitimacy? There is no dignity or legitimacy for such a king! And his throne would be doomed to perish forever! The Iranian-Americans have, like many other people who live in the U.S. during these dark times, been fooled to believe that the Bush administration indeed is serving mankind, and is out on a major mission to deliver democracies throughout the Middle East. You must not allow yourselves to be brainwashed by the American media! The Bush administration is an evil, not any better than the evil ruling Iran today! The Bush administration do not give a damn about Reza pahlavi or the plight of Iran and its people! The Bush administration is cooperating with a handful of anti-Iranian separatists and their supporters in neighboring countries. This is no secret, and they even have admitted it! The Bush administration and Israel has a major plan which is to separate Azarbaijan and Kordestan, and possibley even Baluchistan and Khuzestan from Iran. Israel's agents are very busy in Iraqi Kurdistan, trying to get the Iraqi Kurds to instigate separatist sentiments and activities amongst the Iranian Kurds. Meanwhile, the Bush administration is cooperating and supporting Mahmoud Chehragani, an "Iranian" traitor and his anti-Iranian "South Azerabajan Awakening Movement" (SANAM). I regard any Iranian who knows this, and still supports that the U.S. or Israel should bomb or invade Iran, as a traitor.


shahee wrote:
How dare you have a name like "Shah sucks?" I don't care if your from Iran. If all Iranians truly believe that the Shah was bad it is because the evil murderous mullah regime made them believe that. The shah was a flower. Our economy was good under him and he made sure that Islam was checked and not crazy like now. If Iranians believe that the Shah was bad, Bush should bomb Tehran and place his holy majesty Reza Pahlavi II back into power my force. Maybe that way we can humanize the Iranians in Iran to become as civilized as the Iranians in Europe and America. If you think about it, thats what we're doing anyway. The reason we have to overthrow the regime from the outside is because Iranians in Iran are lazy and haven't done anything. Faster please!
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redemption



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm suprised how low you think of Iranians. For all the problems the opposition has, there are also many good aspects of the opposition and it is the strongest it has ever been. I agreee that Bush and Kerry for the most part are both full of **** and haven't done really anything to truly defend freedom - especially that of Iranians and others throughout the Middle East - and are continuing the same short-sigthed wars and actions of the past. I think policy must and will change next term regardless who is elected. I would though, instead of bashing, work to effect change rather than calling Iranian Americans brainwashed. You're full of **** if you think Iranian Americans are brainwashed? Do you even live in United States?

Some of the stuff you say I agree with, but you go to far unfortunately!
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eski



Joined: 20 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:46 am    Post subject: Re: You're not entirely correct! Reply with quote

Pan-Iranist wrote:
Haven't you forgotten all the weapons that the U.S. sold to Saddam Hussein? And what about the weapons that the Reagan administration sold to the Khomeini regime in the so called "Iran-Contra" deal?




eski wrote:
Stefania,
If you look at every rogue nation with a dangerous leader, who's weapons do you see in their hands? Russian! The Russians have flooded the world with their weapons and will sell to anybody. I don't even doubt that they have already sold several nukes to people like al queada. They sell to anyone and don't give a damn about the consequences. This has been the case for decades and I don't think it will ever change.



The U.S. government isn't perfect and I never said that they were but U.S. weapons are more isolated in their use. Hell, we even gave Iran a pile of F-14 Tomcats back in the 70's when the Shaw was in power and Iran was considered friendly to the U.S. The same goes for the few weapons that Iraq received from us. But the proliferation of Soviet Bloc weapons is so wide spread that it is impossible to ever clean up the mess. Every single country that is rogue in nature and a danger to it's neighbors has Russian made weapons. This can't be denied.
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eski



Joined: 20 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

shahee wrote:
How dare you have a name like "Shah sucks?" I don't care if your from Iran. If all Iranians truly believe that the Shah was bad it is because the evil murderous mullah regime made them believe that. The shah was a flower. Our economy was good under him and he made sure that Islam was checked and not crazy like now. If Iranians believe that the Shah was bad, Bush should bomb Tehran and place his holy majesty Reza Pahlavi II back into power my force. Maybe that way we can humanize the Iranians in Iran to become as civilized as the Iranians in Europe and America. If you think about it, thats what we're doing anyway. The reason we have to overthrow the regime from the outside is because Iranians in Iran are lazy and haven't done anything. Faster please!


I can't see how you can say that Iranians in Iran are lazy. Every time they make a stand by demonstrating and raising hell they do so at their own risk of death. I think that they are extremely brave individuals and should be looked up to. Maybe many of the mainstream Iranians appear lazy and aloof but do you think that they might be terrified to do anything when the powers that be routinely torture and kill those that speak out? I don't think that "Lazy" applies here. I think "Oppressed" is a better word.
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