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9karevatan
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 843
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 Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Pantea wrote: | | Harfe Hesabe in Rashad dar in name chiye??? |
in aghayeh doktor rashad ba binahayat madrak sabet kard ke dine shia va sunni ghalat hastan va akhresh gorohe terrorist koshtanesh dar sale 1992 .... in agha sabet kard ke khoda az aval faghat ye din dade va mardom boodan ke jodash kardan...esme din hastesh taslim....agar khastin bazam dar moredesh harf mizanam.... dar www.efarsi.org be zabane farsi hameyeh toziyat hast....mochakeram
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ke az to daram in jaanam
janam fadayat
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payande baadi IRANam!!!!!!! |
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9karevatan
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 843
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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| American Visitor wrote: | 9karevatan,
Some of the Jews have their Torah "miracle" and you have your Koran "miracle." Both seem questionable to me.
With the discovery of the dead sea scrolls, the Torah has been shown to have significant variations. Which is the "true" version of the Torah with the "true" miracles.
I understand German scholars restoring an old Mosque have discovered a variant form of the Koran. Many years after Muhammid's death most of the variant versions were burned. It is my understanding that the Koran was written down in a haphazard manner and that some of the text has been lost. There is even a story that a goat ate some pages from the Koran shortly after Muhammid's death. Was the goat inspired to eat the correct pages so the miracle of 19 would work? |
first of all the torah is confirmed in the quran as well as the bible (injeel)
and both scriptures contained the mathematical code...however the torah was re-written and as u said spread all over...as for the bible....325 years after jesus death...there was the nicene conferences which morally distorted the bible ...outstanding christian scholars have reached these conclusions..see the book MYTH OF MAN INCARNATE...
therefore the quran is the only religious scripture that has been fully perserved and this is confirmed by the mathematical code...to u i suggest reviewing the extent of the code and then to determine if it is humanly possible... www.submission.org
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iran iranam iraaanam
ke az to daram in jaanam
janam fadayat
mikhanam
payande baadi IRANam!!!!!!! |
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9karevatan
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 843
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Equality wrote: | | 9karevatan wrote: | if it was bullshit i dont think soo many professors and educated people would accept it and want to discuss it .....obviously u have not examined the evidence which is usually a good thing to do
i also dont think azadi TV would give away 2 hours of its precious time to something that was false
also u mentioned souls....can u tell me what exactly they are and do u even believe in them??? |
souls are people, I believe in people, replace "soul" with "person" and it will make sense.
Well since its on Azadi TV it MUST be true. Sheep led to the slaughter...
its very sad.
Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence, claiming that God exists is an extraordinary claim, please give me some evidence and prove it is not bullshit. |
very very good comment made by u here... in fact very similar to a verse in the quran
[17:36] You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
my good friend i cannot stuff anything down your throat...all i can do is ask u and invite u to examine the evidence i provide at http://www.submission.org/miracle/ and i can answer any questions u may have regarding it...other than that, you are on your own and review what is provided to u ...
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iran iranam iraaanam
ke az to daram in jaanam
janam fadayat
mikhanam
payande baadi IRANam!!!!!!! |
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9karevatan
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 843
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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i hope reza saw that i have replyed to him on the previous page
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iran iranam iraaanam
ke az to daram in jaanam
janam fadayat
mikhanam
payande baadi IRANam!!!!!!! |
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Equality
Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 97
Location: Richmond VA (USA)
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| Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| 9karevatan wrote: | | Equality wrote: | | 9karevatan wrote: | if it was bullshit i dont think soo many professors and educated people would accept it and want to discuss it .....obviously u have not examined the evidence which is usually a good thing to do
i also dont think azadi TV would give away 2 hours of its precious time to something that was false
also u mentioned souls....can u tell me what exactly they are and do u even believe in them??? |
souls are people, I believe in people, replace "soul" with "person" and it will make sense.
Well since its on Azadi TV it MUST be true. Sheep led to the slaughter...
its very sad.
Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence, claiming that God exists is an extraordinary claim, please give me some evidence and prove it is not bullshit. |
very very good comment made by u here... in fact very similar to a verse in the quran
[17:36] You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
my good friend i cannot stuff anything down your throat...all i can do is ask u and invite u to examine the evidence i provide at http://www.submission.org/miracle/ and i can answer any questions u may have regarding it...other than that, you are on your own and review what is provided to u ... |
fair enough |
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reza
Joined: 11 Mar 2004
Posts: 466
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 4:00 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | is it really a mathematical "miracle", Hume defines miracles as "a transgression of a law of nature by the paticular volition of a deity or invisible agent" wheras the qu'ran is made completely within the bondaries of natural law, I know allah dictated it to mohammed so it is in a sense divine, but can it really be called a miracle when a computer could do the same nowadays? No disrespect or offense intended i merely wish to learn. |
I have read the article on the phenomenon of the qu'ran but my question remains the same, the qu'rans mathematical code is not a transgression of a law of nature. Also the code is a very interesting phenomenon and i don't doubt that it has a high significance, however a mathematical code tends to have a link between the numbers in the sequence so a conclusion can be reached, the article i read did not come to a conclusion which explains why or how we can understand the meaning of the code. Can you help me with this as the part that i cannot grasp is for what reaon is there this code? also for someone who believes in god, this is divine intervention but for an atheist or an agnostic it is very easily doubted - an interesting contrast don't you think? but i do not believe the code was made to convert people, perhaps it is for a more enlightened view of the Qu'ran.
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"When on the battlefield if you have the sole intention of breaking into the enemy lines, you will manifest martial valour. Furthermore if you are slain in battle you should be resolved to having your corpse facing the enemy" - Yamamoto tsunetomo |
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American Visitor
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 8:02 am Post subject: |
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9karevatan,
You acknowledged my objections to the code in the Torah but didn't address the same problem with a code in the Koran. To get a "miracle" you have to know the text has not changed otherwise you have an interesting coincidence. I suppose you don't accept that the goat ate part of the Koran?
What is so special about the number 19? To me it is just a prime number. Who made the rules for your test? Do you just try different combinations until one works?
Suppose you are correct and there is actually a code in the Koran. What does that prove? The teachings of a book are much more important than numerology. |
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9karevatan
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 843
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 11:23 am Post subject: |
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the number 19 is mentioned in the quran as such a number ....it occures in the verse called the hidden secret http://www.submission.org/suras/sura74.html ...The Quran's Common Denominator
[74:30] Over it is nineteen.
the five reasons for the miracle are mentioned in this verse
[74:31] We appointed angels to be guardians of Hell, and we assigned their number (19) (1) to disturb the disbelievers, (2) to convince the Christians and Jews (that this is a divine scripture), (3) to strengthen the faith of the faithful, (4) to remove all traces of doubt from the hearts of Christians, Jews, as well as the believers, and (5) to expose those who harbor doubt in their hearts, and the disbelievers; they will say, "What did GOD mean by this allegory?" GOD thus sends astray whomever He wills, and guides whomever He wills. None knows the soldiers of your Lord except He. This is a reminder for the people.
[74:32] Absolutely, (I swear) by the moon.
[74:33] And the night as it passes.
[74:34] And the morning as it shines.
One of the Great Miracles
[74:35] This is one of the great miracles.
note that 7+4+3+5=19
it is the only number that has such support.....to reza i suggest u do some more reading at http://www.submission.org/miracle/
good luck
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iran iranam iraaanam
ke az to daram in jaanam
janam fadayat
mikhanam
payande baadi IRANam!!!!!!! |
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Cyrus the Not-So-Great
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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This numerology is yet another example of pathetic Mohammedan apologetics. Besides, it is wrong. See http://answering-islam.org.uk/Nehls/Ask/number19.html.
This reminds of the Bible Code. Take the Hebrew, rearrange, use the numerical values of the letters and you get gibberish that some idiot actually thought meant something. |
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9karevatan
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 843
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 5:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Cyrus the Not-So-Great wrote: | This numerology is yet another example of pathetic Mohammedan apologetics. Besides, it is wrong. See http://answering-islam.org.uk/Nehls/Ask/number19.html.
This reminds of the Bible Code. Take the Hebrew, rearrange, use the numerical values of the letters and you get gibberish that some idiot actually thought meant something. |
wow i was just waiting for someone to post that site....well mr. first let me tell you that Cyrus is Cyrus the Great and second...i have a gift for u in response to your website.....
http://www.submission.org/answering-Islam.htm
...any claim made on your site is proven false ...no offence...we will let the readers decide...as for the bible code ladies and gentlemen...
http://www.submission.org/miracle/bible_code.html
i have everything for u pal...just keep your cool and read
i suggest u go read more thoroughly about the miracle at http://www.submission.org/miracle/ ...u too obviously dont have enough information
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iran iranam iraaanam
ke az to daram in jaanam
janam fadayat
mikhanam
payande baadi IRANam!!!!!!! |
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American Visitor
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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9karevatan,
I got into your "miracles" of 19 started doing some research myself. I found something very interesting. For years I'd been wondering about the number 666, perhaps the number 19 is a clue.
| Quote: | Rev 13:18-14:1
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
KJV |
I'm sorry I can't reproduce the Greek words here since this place doesn't seem to support Greek, but I counted twice and the Greek words for "six hundred sixty six" have exactly 19 letters. [/quote] |
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9karevatan
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 843
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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very interesting...but things like that are common to me....but then someone goes and purposely writes sentences that have 19 letters against the miracle and tells me that it proves that i am wrong....what nonsence is that...
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iran iranam iraaanam
ke az to daram in jaanam
janam fadayat
mikhanam
payande baadi IRANam!!!!!!! |
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9karevatan
Joined: 16 Jan 2004
Posts: 843
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 6:36 pm Post subject: |
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however the number 666 is not mentioned in the quran and is not divisible by 19....personally i think the number 786 is more interesting 
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iran iranam iraaanam
ke az to daram in jaanam
janam fadayat
mikhanam
payande baadi IRANam!!!!!!! |
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American Visitor
Joined: 19 Feb 2004
Posts: 224
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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9karevatan,
Things are getting more interesting all the time. The Greek word for beast has letters which in the Greek alphabet add up to 76=19 times 4. The word for man in the same text adds up to 114= 19 times 6. The more I look, the more the miracles keep appearing! Here's what we have so far from this verse:
Rev 13:18-14:1
18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred three score and six.KJV
In Greek every one of these words or phrases contains the number 19. Is it possible this is just coincidence, or did God hide a message of warning for those people of the last days about a great deception? Incidentally, I didn't write those words, they were written by the prophet John 2000 years ago, long before the Koran was written. |
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sudi
Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 235
Location: Plano, TX
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| Posted: Tue May 25, 2004 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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Ooh, ooh, I got one too ... OK, if you take all the letters in Bill Gates III and then convert it in ASCII code and then add up all the numbers...you will get 666:
B = 66
I = 73
L = 76
L = 76
G = 71
A = 65
T = 84
E = 69
S = 83
I = 1
I = 1
I = 1__ = 666 !!!! THE NUMBER OF THE DEVIL
Is Bill Gates part of this miracle? Astonishing! Boy, I now see the world in a whole new light  |
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