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18 Tir, Ideas & Suggestions:
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Liberty Now !



Joined: 04 Apr 2004
Posts: 521

PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2004 10:55 pm    Post subject: 18 Tir, Ideas & Suggestions: Reply with quote



This section is dedicated to suggestions
about the upcoming 18 Tir event:


Some of the main issues

1) What do you think will make this year's 18 Tir a more effective and memorable event?

2) How can the students send a more clear messege to the world?

3) What are the pre-requisites for larger number of people to join?

4) What measures should be taken into account to make it safer for the public or students?

5) And finally if there was to be clashes between students and thugs of the reigme,
what defensive measures can be taken this year?




I've writtn a whole page on this, but then hit the back arrow by mistake! will add it later.

Ok, Let's roll up our sleeves Wink
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Spenta



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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2004 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
1) What do you think will make this year's 18 Tir a more effective and memorable event?


Surprise.

Last year the June protests were much bigger precisely because the Mullah$ were not ready for it. By the time July 9th rolled in, they were already brutally suppressed, and there had been mass arrests and intimidation designed to prevent an uprising. As some callers and eye witnesses reported, the heavy military presense that day scared away many.

July 9th seems like a setup for many now, so its a problem. These organised events or specified dates are problematic precisely because it gives the Mullah$ a chance to prepare and hit hard. The Mullah$ know that everytime they hit back hard and win, they have scored a psychological victory. The Mullah$ believe that this strategy is working because many have become disillusioned from political opposition and dissent as a result. They think that if they continue to suppress, eventually none of these movments will ever coalesce into something bigger. July 9th should not be used to deliver another victory for the Mullah$!

Its best to catch them off guard, and there has to be contigency plans, such as what to do if they move in to crush a demo etc. But most importatnly July 9th cannot be used to deliver another victory for the Mullah$. Its almost better to have something like everyone turn off your lights or something like that, rather than demos that can get more people hurt and arrested. If millions of people turn off their lights or a similar gesture, nobody gets hurt, its a victory for the opposition. If the Mullah$ beat up and arrest more demonstrators its another victory for the Mullah$.

Its a game of chicken at this point. More important to build a strong and confidant opposition, than more losses that deliver a victory to the Mullah$. If demos are planned, they must take the Mullah$ by surprise, which means they can't be on the 9th.


Quote:
2) How can the students send a more clear messege to the world?


The failure of the Iranian opposition and student movment to engage the left is the primary problem as I see it, as a result there is very little press coverage or support. The Mullah$ successfully courted the intellectuals in the west, this unfortunately bought them a great deal of legitimacy. In reaction the opposition courted the right, but now its time for the opposition to also court and work the left in addition to the right. Unfortuantely, given the current political climate, the anti US Imperialism stance of the Mullah$ simply means that any movement against them will most likely not receive a whole of support from the left.

I believe this can be changed. Of course, any plan or ploy to make the Iranian student cause more 'sexy' in mediaspeak can make a difference. But perhaps the most important thing is to find western leftist figures who are willing to become a champion of Iranian students. Khomeini and his cohorts had the blessings of many prominant intellectuals, artists, philosophers, and political leaders in Europe and the US. Last year Noam Chomsky became a signatory on a petition for democracy in Iran. People may dislike Chomsky, and I understand and even agree, but if you could turn him into a champion of the Iranian cause, that could start a trend that could take off in the media and academia. But once again, given the current political climate in the world, the left is busy with other issues.

However, not all is lost. Lately I notice that many more people on the left are becoming sympathetic to the cuase of Iranian democracy. Surprisingly enough, what is happening in Iraq is fueling that. I give them links to articles and boards like this, and they get very excited by it. So I have a feeling that the Zeitgeist if you may is perhaps receptive, its just a question of striking the right chord. My suggestion? Start working academia and the arts. Its a good way of hooking into the left and making the Iranian democracy story a 'sexy' one for the media. Ultimately you'll get a lot more attention and coverage this way, than through having Oliver North on Fox talking about July 9th! This was also a strategy that the Palestinians employed in the 1970s and '80s, and it did turn them into a cause celebre of intellectuals in the west, however their leadership, namely the maniac terrorists, screwd them!

What I think will be effective is for the diaspora to organise events for July 9th that put the Iranian students in direct contact with the public in the west. For instance those of you who are in colleges, organise conferences, shows or events that allow faculty and students in the west on that day to see and hear images of July 9th. Academia is influential. Setup secure Internet connections with students in Iran who can explain their situation to students and faculty in the US as part of conferences at various campuses. There is a great interest in promoting democracy in the Middle East in US academia right now, so use the theme to attract large crowds, and use it as an opportunity to inform and educate on behalf of Iranian students.

Also, any art exhibits at galleries, should be used. Create interesting projects that put gallery attendants and students in Iran in contact for July 9th. Photographs and video art installations making use of the footage, also sound installations with voices during demonstrations etc. Consider collaborating with western artists, so it isn't just Iranians doing it, but also others.

In addition to portests and marches, the above can have a much greater impact. Engage academia in the west, because what they make trendy, will then become trendy for the press!

I understand many of you are angry at the left, and feel that only the right is on your side. But we need both the left and the right to win this one. The right has been won over, its now time to turn the Iranian students and the democracy movement in Iran into the cause celebre of western intellectuals and also the left.

Those of you in Ivy League schools especially have a greater burden, for carrying the message this July 9th, because of the influence.

Quote:
4) What measures should be taken into account to make it safer for the public or students?

5) And finally if there was to be clashes between students and thugs of the reigme,
what defensive measures can be taken this year?



I strongly urge you and others to not discuss this subject in a public forum,. Anything you come up with that is posted here, is instantly moot as the Mullah$ come up with a contingency plan for it. Don't make their jobs easier by letting them know what to prepare for.

By all means plan for the above, it is very important, but keep the plans secret.
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Spenta



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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2004 2:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

accidental post, sorry
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redemption



Joined: 30 Dec 2003
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2004 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spenta wrote:
Quote:
1) What do you think will make this year's 18 Tir a more effective and memorable event?


Surprise.

Last year the June protests were much bigger precisely because the Mullah$ were not ready for it. By the time July 9th rolled in, they were already brutally suppressed, and there had been mass arrests and intimidation designed to prevent an uprising. As some callers and eye witnesses reported, the heavy military presense that day scared away many.

July 9th seems like a setup for many now, so its a problem. These organised events or specified dates are problematic precisely because it gives the Mullah$ a chance to prepare and hit hard. The Mullah$ know that everytime they hit back hard and win, they have scored a psychological victory. The Mullah$ believe that this strategy is working because many have become disillusioned from political opposition and dissent as a result. They think that if they continue to suppress, eventually none of these movments will ever coalesce into something bigger. July 9th should not be used to deliver another victory for the Mullah$!

Its best to catch them off guard, and there has to be contigency plans, such as what to do if they move in to crush a demo etc. But most importatnly July 9th cannot be used to deliver another victory for the Mullah$. Its almost better to have something like everyone turn off your lights or something like that, rather than demos that can get more people hurt and arrested. If millions of people turn off their lights or a similar gesture, nobody gets hurt, its a victory for the opposition. If the Mullah$ beat up and arrest more demonstrators its another victory for the Mullah$.

Its a game of chicken at this point. More important to build a strong and confidant opposition, than more losses that deliver a victory to the Mullah$. If demos are planned, they must take the Mullah$ by surprise, which means they can't be on the 9th.


Quote:
2) How can the students send a more clear messege to the world?


The failure of the Iranian opposition and student movment to engage the left is the primary problem as I see it, as a result there is very little press coverage or support. The Mullah$ successfully courted the intellectuals in the west, this unfortunately bought them a great deal of legitimacy. In reaction the opposition courted the right, but now its time for the opposition to also court and work the left in addition to the right. Unfortuantely, given the current political climate, the anti US Imperialism stance of the Mullah$ simply means that any movement against them will most likely not receive a whole of support from the left.

I believe this can be changed. Of course, any plan or ploy to make the Iranian student cause more 'sexy' in mediaspeak can make a difference. But perhaps the most important thing is to find western leftist figures who are willing to become a champion of Iranian students. Khomeini and his cohorts had the blessings of many prominant intellectuals, artists, philosophers, and political leaders in Europe and the US. Last year Noam Chomsky became a signatory on a petition for democracy in Iran. People may dislike Chomsky, and I understand and even agree, but if you could turn him into a champion of the Iranian cause, that could start a trend that could take off in the media and academia. But once again, given the current political climate in the world, the left is busy with other issues.

However, not all is lost. Lately I notice that many more people on the left are becoming sympathetic to the cuase of Iranian democracy. Surprisingly enough, what is happening in Iraq is fueling that. I give them links to articles and boards like this, and they get very excited by it. So I have a feeling that the Zeitgeist if you may is perhaps receptive, its just a question of striking the right chord. My suggestion? Start working academia and the arts. Its a good way of hooking into the left and making the Iranian democracy story a 'sexy' one for the media. Ultimately you'll get a lot more attention and coverage this way, than through having Oliver North on Fox talking about July 9th! This was also a strategy that the Palestinians employed in the 1970s and '80s, and it did turn them into a cause celebre of intellectuals in the west, however their leadership, namely the maniac terrorists, screwd them!

What I think will be effective is for the diaspora to organise events for July 9th that put the Iranian students in direct contact with the public in the west. For instance those of you who are in colleges, organise conferences, shows or events that allow faculty and students in the west on that day to see and hear images of July 9th. Academia is influential. Setup secure Internet connections with students in Iran who can explain their situation to students and faculty in the US as part of conferences at various campuses. There is a great interest in promoting democracy in the Middle East in US academia right now, so use the theme to attract large crowds, and use it as an opportunity to inform and educate on behalf of Iranian students.

Also, any art exhibits at galleries, should be used. Create interesting projects that put gallery attendants and students in Iran in contact for July 9th. Photographs and video art installations making use of the footage, also sound installations with voices during demonstrations etc. Consider collaborating with western artists, so it isn't just Iranians doing it, but also others.

In addition to portests and marches, the above can have a much greater impact. Engage academia in the west, because what they make trendy, will then become trendy for the press!

I understand many of you are angry at the left, and feel that only the right is on your side. But we need both the left and the right to win this one. The right has been won over, its now time to turn the Iranian students and the democracy movement in Iran into the cause celebre of western intellectuals and also the left.

Those of you in Ivy League schools especially have a greater burden, for carrying the message this July 9th, because of the influence.

Quote:
4) What measures should be taken into account to make it safer for the public or students?

5) And finally if there was to be clashes between students and thugs of the reigme,
what defensive measures can be taken this year?



I strongly urge you and others to not discuss this subject in a public forum,. Anything you come up with that is posted here, is instantly moot as the Mullah$ come up with a contingency plan for it. Don't make their jobs easier by letting them know what to prepare for.

By all means plan for the above, it is very important, but keep the plans secret.


Agree completely - if you need to discuss issues of crucial importance and secrecy please be smart about it and use a more secure method such as Private Message or Email.. These of course are not completely secure, but it is a lot less obvious than posting a plan on a public forum....
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Equality



Joined: 17 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2004 9:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

2) How can the students send a more clear messege to the world?

Well I suggest you get cameras and video tape everything and send them to the major news agencies, these days media is driven by video clips more than actual information.
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Liberty Now !



Joined: 04 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:18 pm    Post subject: 18 Tir Reply with quote

Thank you my dear Spenta for your insights on this. You said it all.

I'm listening to a report from iran on KRSI, the situation is very tense all over the country. regime has already put gaurds on major streets (supposedly to help the traffic police!)

while there were 3 days late to respond to Bam Quake victims, their gaurds have always been ready to send troops to suppress demos almost immidiately! element of surprise could only hold for few minutes up to an hour max.

I totally agree we shouldn't give the mullahs the upper hand or the chance for attacks and arrests. but it's happening every day all over Iran now. as the activists inside say: "Every single day is a July 9th!"

but this day can be used to send another loud and clear messege to the world, and as Spenta have mentioned, the type of organized civil gatherings with an aim to attact western media attention is far more desirable than scattered clashes with the gaurds.

as Spenta puts it: leftist type 'sexy demos', is exactly my point and to put forward ideas which could be used on July 9th or any other event. We definitely need to see more of such demos. and less unnecessary violent clashes.

My idea to make the event more engaging is to divide it into several stages. While all groups can participate and play a role. but all in one location.

I agree we should not say anything to be used by the mullahs against the people. but as long as it's towards a non-violent civil resistance, no government has yet came up with an immidiate response for such opposition! (this is what we can focus our ideas on) Wink
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Liberty Now !



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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Civil disobedients: (there is a long list at: http://www.derafsh.org/Dok/Estratedji%20Bozorg%2001.pdf)

Arrow Turning out the lights throughout the country as Spenta has mentioned Idea very effective thank you.

Arrow Candle lights on roof tops, while all other lights are out. could work too.

Arrow elderly and children can always support others on streets, by making noise on rooftops. whisles, drums, metal pots, etc!

Arrow Calm. quiet. serene Candle light vigils

Arrow concerts and demos: Arrow you're turn Wink
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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2004 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

according to this article, most women in Tehran carry cold weapons in fear of being attacked!
http://web.peykeiran.com/net_iran/irnewsbody.aspx?ID=14572

Special forces Gaurd all major Intersections!
Tehran

11+ gaurds on one intersection


9 on this picture
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sudi



Joined: 19 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2004 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 18 Tir Reply with quote

Liberty Now ! wrote:
...as Spenta puts it: leftist type 'sexy demos', is exactly my point and to put forward ideas which could be used on July 9th or any other event. ...


Along the same lines of 'involving the left', you can try and get ANSWER's support. They've been able to organize demonstrations with hundreds of thousands of participants ... I feel like I just sold my soul to the devil Wink

However, I don't believe democracy or democratic aspirations are as appealing to the 'left' as anti-capitalism and anti-americanism.
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redemption



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PostPosted: Tue May 11, 2004 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm so turned off to ANSWER - they made me sick when I went to a rally a few years ago.. Time to blast these bloody arab mercenaries controlling the streets of Iran.. Women and Men should rise up and fight these fuckers backl!!!!
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 8:51 pm    Post subject: Re: 18 Tir Reply with quote

sudi wrote:
Liberty Now ! wrote:
...as Spenta puts it: leftist type 'sexy demos', is exactly my point and to put forward ideas which could be used on July 9th or any other event. ...


Along the same lines of 'involving the left', you can try and get ANSWER's support. They've been able to organize demonstrations with hundreds of thousands of participants ... I feel like I just sold my soul to the devil Wink

However, I don't believe democracy or democratic aspirations are as appealing to the 'left' as anti-capitalism and anti-americanism.


good idea.
True leftist demos are sexy, but stalinism is not!
I don't think Iranian youth can stomach much more Ideologist Rules! be it fascism, islamism, khomeinism, or stalinism.
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vigile for Free Iran
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's Call for a Global Candle Light Vigile


in Support of Iranian Student Movement for a Free Iran.


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Spenta



Joined: 04 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that. Thats good, its got the peace motif, its visually striking as a photo op, and the idea is we are having a candle vigil for all who are imprisoned in Iran!

Hopefully that can attract leftist support. It should do so in Europe, where the government leaders and captians of industry are so chummy with the Mullah$.

Great idea vigile for Free Iran
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redemption



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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 8:06 pm    Post subject: ddd Reply with quote

I say we start going to the LEftist message forums and slowly and systematically begin posting messages to encourage them to support Iranian freedom and unite with the 'Free Iran' movement!
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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2004 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say

1. first one of Student Groups has to call for a Global vigile.

2. then we need brochours and logos, video clips, etc, to spreat around.
(perhaps in different languages)



Let's do it ! Call for a Global Candlelight Vigile in support of student movements and prisoners in Iran.

What are we waiting for?
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